In post 792, Hinduragi wrote:I feel like Vax is actively lurking and it's pinging the fuck out of me. I mean, really, if you're nervous scum and just exited a 1v1 where everyone unvoted you, you'd want to just escape for a bit, right? Please tell me I'm just being paranoid.
In post 794, Vaxkiller wrote:Sorry for not posting over the weekend, reading now.
In post 795, boring wrote:@Hindu - thank you
@Vax - That was one heckuva beetlejuice
Rofl.
Vaxkiller is not anti-vaccine, he is a killer of Vax machines.
I assumed that ActionDan's content would at least give us something to use after his flip (since he's looking to be today's lynch), but he doesn't say much of consequence, and he's really coming out of left field with his reads. If he flips town, I don't think his content will be very useful. If he flips scum, I don't see it helping us clear anyone (except maybe Hindu or LLD [though, not both, apparently?]). His general obscurity points more to scummy than towny. If he had started the walling and shading after being placed under pressure, I'd say it's obvious flailing. I just don't get why scum would do all that for no reason. It's not exactly pro-survival behavior.
I know we're running out of time, and I like the players on AD's wagon.
VOTE: ActionDan
Promise me we'll lynch from the scummy end of the K-pool tomorrow.
also, @Vax, you're making townleaning you a chore.
AD, doesn't it seem more than a little odd to you that scum-Hinduragi would champion scum-LLD so hard in a game where it's going to be pretty much impossible to avoid a random guilty via hider?
In post 841, ActionDan wrote:As a preface to this post, I'll spoiler this, for hinduragi, but for the voyeurs out there have at it:
In post 717, Hinduragi wrote:Alright, I'm going to step out of the game for a second and just say one thing because I was rageposting while writing that up.
Spoiler: Really this is just for AD but we all know you want to click it
I apologize for being rude in 713/714, AD. I've had a long day and I
really
despise walls and got pissed that there was another one as soon as I got time to read and post today. It's really irked me even moreso that you've been calling out anime images in them and I've wasted my time locating the post just to realize it has no relevance to anyone being scum/town and you're just commenting on it. Also, I still do think that's filler but I wouldn't necessarily say that makes it a bad wall. I'm honestly not having fun due to trying to read so much as well as respond to walls.
<3 AD, but I still think you're scum. Also, I'm not going to be linking god knows everything in a wall and quoting it all starting from this post; From the moment I sat down, it has taken me over 2 hours to form my response after first trying to understand what was linked and how that related to the second wall. It took me even longer to go through the first wall. I really can't keep up that kind of time commitment right now.
Spoiler:
Well keep in mind that the first wall was me catching up with (at the time) 20 pages of material, and the subsequent ones were because I felt obligated to respond to your own (rather large) wall in response. This post will probably be wall-y (edit: Definitely ) but I aim to post a bit more in bulk without as many quotes and condense what I can without losing too much context in the process. As far as rudeness is concerned I don't think you're even coming close to crossing any lines and I've been just as snarky myself. On my end I'll be more considerate. I appreciate your post, it's an overture I haven't experienced or even witnessed often, and you have my sincere gratitude for it.
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I think it's best to start with this
In post 716, Hinduragi wrote:Actually, to get some substance out of this, AD. What's your scumread on me from? The reasons in your wall about me being scum are laughable at best.
As of now it's two parts. One part is that we seem to be living in two different realities, we're operating under two different sets of facts, and it leads me to question that you truly believe the one you describe when it is demonstratively false.
We have two completely and apparently irreconcilable interpretations of 123 and 223, which we've discussed plenty and I've dedicated an entire post to; even in the three lines you quoted and have presented at the top of 715, I again fail to see how you or anyone could have extracted the concern that she was referring to the problem of "scum failing their kill = knowledge gained of precisely one daughter" at any point in the quote. This concern is also unavoidable in any plan, and therefore a general concern. You chastise me that I ought to think LLD's posts through, but I assure you I have, many times, and I'm not crazy. Nor am I the only one that thinks so (I am explicitly referring to kagami here, the only other person that seems to have actually invested the time into reading those posts of LLD's and analyzing them). What I could potentially see, is that you think she's so town, for whatever reason, that you're assigning her credit for something not there, but I don't think you'd treat me in this way were that the case.
Separate from that I think the way you've treated the sequence of posts from 281 to 285 also falls under this category. Context:
In post 660, Hinduragi wrote:My 281 clearly shows Kagami expects a daughter claim and is wanting a lynch. Feigning ignorance to that is ignoring what's right in front of you.
For the record, since there isn't context with this and while I'm looking over this abomination of a post.
AD wrote:Don’t see how Kagami’s 279 is scummy either. or how you think Kagami is daughter hunting.
I got scumread because AD doesn't see "how 279 is scummy or " how I "think Kagami is daughter hunting" in 281. There's no reasoning here. There's no basis. There's simply disagreement.
Noone else questioned this because it's pretty obvious the aim of the post is expecting a daughter claim in reply, which Kagami later clarified was the case
.
Well in 284 that would be Kagami questioning it and in 285 clarifying that was not the case. This is all within around 2 posts of yours too. Are you... feigning ignorance?
However, I don't think the other interpretation is scummy either, that is, to pursue a read that's essentially daughter or bust, which again, kagami wasn't actually doing.
284/285: Kagami was clearly not explaining she thought LLD claimed non-daughter prior to that. It's easy to think she was daughter hunting in 281 --> which was clearly posted before 284/285. Your questioning of that post is entirely off. Kagami responded to my post with those posts, not the other way around.
Broadly speaking, by the time I wrote 707 I had understood what 281 meant, that at that point you interpreted kagami to expect a daughter claim from LLD. I don't remember when exactly I realized that, it could have been as early as right after I wrote that in 642, but I should have mentioned that I understood your point of view in 707, so sorry for that. Still, the bolded sentence above is what I had an issue with when I replied specifically. That is just false, on the count of no one questioning your interpretation (In 284 Kagami asked if you were reading), and on the count of your interpretation being the correct one (In 285 Kagami is explicitly saying it is not); and that is what I was referring to in my reply in 707 which as far as I can tell you are acknowledging implicitly by what you said in 715. I also think your initial interpretation was not obvious at all and certainly wouldn't be the first I'd think of considering how blatantly LLD not-daughter-told early on page 5. Sure that's a disagreement, but your interpretation before being corrected was fodder to accuse kagami of being scummy and it is possible to willfully interpret things one way to smear her.
The "contradiction" in post 555 I made a reference to in would have been bundled here but if I stare hard enough I can see your point of view where the first "contribute" refers strictly to making posts in game whereas the second refers to making meaningful posts in game. The choice of words still rubs me the wrong way, but I can get over it.
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The other part is where the facts are the same, but we have quite different interpretations of them. In the interests of time and readability, I'll go other this more generally as it's not quite as context reliant.
I still find your 193 unnatural. Sure people jump on supposed scum slips here and there and from time to time but I can assure you there was 2 pages of content that exclusively contained posts from Kaede/Cabd/Nos/LLD that ended up with LLD and Kaede proclaiming and agreeing to a 1v1, so there was a good amount there to form a read. It's one thing to expect a reason of Kaede's scum read of LLD to be based on the "3 scum" language (that is indeed the ostensible reason for the original vote) but to expect it to be the main and only one considering the posts in-between is far-fetched.
In regards to Vax, there were fair criticisms to be made and you made them, but you threw basically everything you could at him too in 305 things like uselessness / trolling / daughter hunting and presented them as malicious scummy things when they weren't. I think it's scummy to paint someone as scummier than they have any right to be. In addition I felt the "'not to me'" assessment was both untrue and also hypocritical. I agree that his response was over the top, but as I said I discounted the emotion (well somewhat. I did think it was righteous) and rather gave him credit for reasoning against a couple of your points, and sticking to it over multiple posts. You ask me to compare that with Joey's posts, 313-316, and it's still really hard to see where that huge amount of anger that reaches fever pitch comes from over objectively benign posts. It's comparing apples and oranges.
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So that's where my scum read comes from. There's a bit more in your posts that you wanted me to address but I'm just say were you to flip town I'd reevaluate at a minimum my read of LLD. I still might reach the same conclusion but I'd I wouldn't rush headlong into "LLD is scum, gotta be"; I concede the point about blanket statements / I should have been more through in what I meant by that, as I was afterwards but I feel like I have to reiterate that 642 was catch up notes. Things are bound to be lost in translation.
ALL THAT said I agree with you that I have many doubts these posts actually get read, the evidence being I don't think I've seen any particular part of mine or your walls get referenced. Just general feelings one
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As for everyone else:
When I don't feel like super sleepy I'll have to read and evaluate the exchange between Nos/Oma/kyoto. Whatever that was seemed to spawn from out of the blue.
There's a subtle change in position from Joey over the course of these posts
In post 719, Joey_ wrote:idk about dan, the guy barely make sens honestly but i do share the feeling about being unsure of his alignement, i just feels that the guy's incoherent and its not because of his alignement or better say regardless of his alignement
@ MOD : I voted actiondan first, when hes flips red i want all my cred thank you
Which makes me think the first evaluation wasn't quite truthful.
Utsugi's voting reason is unnerving and suspect. The last time someone voted based on wagon composition D1 they were scum and with due reason. You should always be trying for something that you scum read if you have them, which Utsugi, and barring that, reread to try and make a reasonable comparison between similar reads of people. If you vote based on wagon comp you're essentially abdicating responsibility for your vote.
Maki is doing the same thing but as far as I can tell she doesn't have anything better available read wise. That's a bit hard to imagine but same advice applies.
I continue to wonder if Cabd will make an appearance.
Anyway I feel like I'm on the short end of a shit stick and it sucks.
Sleep now, probably consider future voting options later if the current trend continues
dude i didnt a single thing but your litteral first word of this post, if you thinks theres a world where you can save yourself from getting roped by making a case about ash you are delusionnal
In post 654, Joey_ wrote:Also, he implied numerous time that my posts were scummy ish, he made about 2-3 comments in his catch up post about my posts, slightly shading me each time.
Can you point these out for me?
Honestly, no like, im theres a few post he commented on that were mine, namely my reaction to you outing your daughters reads and such, i dont want to reread his post just to answer to you sorry but you can do the work yourself
In post 842, Maki Harukawa wrote:Don't really think you're scum but I'm not gonna kick and scream over your lynch.
@dan i sincerely dont think ure gonna flip red, but youre a great flip for today considering 2-3 slots didnt show up, half town is null and i have like 5 hardcore townreads
In post 688, Joey_ wrote:Its mind boggling to me that someone could scumread lld honestly and ash who just recently towned it up even further
So you were town reading them before they were towny?
No? I will try not to be pedantic but "further" implies that there was a level of towniness a priori. I townread ash all game basically, but his recent posting (as of that post) made me locktown him along with LLDD
@FG: If Yuki doesn't pick up her prod/post by midnight, could we have a replacement and appropriate deadline extension?
Ad is fine, i dont want to stall the deadline where its so hard to get decent reads just to wait for one slot to read 30 pages and repeat mostly what has been said
) but I aim to post a bit more in bulk without as many quotes and condense what I can without losing too much context in the process. As far as rudeness is concerned I don't think you're even coming close to crossing any lines and I've been just as snarky myself. On my end I'll be more considerate. I appreciate your post, it's an overture I haven't experienced or even witnessed often, and you have my sincere gratitude for it.