Rocky Horror Picture Show - players suck, game over

[Cerberus v666]

Rocky Horrors role isn't filled out...their recruit and/or other actions aren't listed.

[Cerberus v666]

@mutant, I never cared enough about this game to attempt to figure out who cult leaders were, because there was no benefit to doing so.

[Ahsoka Tano]

you people are fucking stupid

you don't vote in-game to end a game

you PM THE MOD and express your desire - can't you read the fucking rules that I don't respond to shit posed to me in the game thread? why do you think voting to end the game is a function of the game?

I don't know why a listmod was contacted BEFORE YOU CONTACTED ME

but then, most of you are fucking stupid soooo

*shrug*

game over

you all lose

April 3rd

So, do you really think it is serving your wincon by not using your action? you don't think it is anti-wincon?

You're right. Replace me.

I am very sorry.

I was still here. Not replaced. No replacement seeked.

Now, I did not contact the listmod but would contacting you have made anything happen?

Thank you for modding. I will now take my "fucking stupid" ass out of this thread.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma, I'd like to apologise for killing you. I had you and TGP mixed up on my spreadsheet. I thought TGP was the PR and not you... I made that kill because I wanted to narrow down the pool or recruitments / unidentifieds. Obviously Gamma you had role claimed which meant you were identified but I marked TGP as your role on my spreadsheet :/

lol
that was honestly a mistake overall because I'd starting suspecting you less in Tit For Tat after you made a similar point to what I found sketchy from you there, so I was letting off you, but when I died I got spoilers that you were CL and had recruited srceenplay so I knew it was a behavior you had done as scum so I doubled down in the other game with that knowledge.

[mutantdevle]

@mutant, I never cared enough about this game to attempt to figure out who cult leaders were, because there was no benefit to doing so.

Yeah fair enough.

Also, I disagree with the title. I even found the game boring in the end and I was possibly the best role you could get... The game definitely should have had lynching and PTs would have been appreciated too. This game was really fun in concept but the flaws in it were shining by the end making the game uneventful. Even when things did occur most of us were too bored to properly care.

[Cerberus v666]

you people are fucking stupid

you don't vote in-game to end a game

you PM THE MOD and express your desire - can't you read the fucking rules that I don't respond to shit posed to me in the game thread? why do you think voting to end the game is a function of the game?

I don't know why a listmod was contacted BEFORE YOU CONTACTED ME

but then, most of you are fucking stupid soooo

*shrug*

game over

you all lose

For the record, drealm...if you're actually bothering with reading your game(which, btw, your rule about not responding to in game things is basically simply an excuse to not have to actually moderate your game), then it's pretty ridiculous for you to *not* respond in any way to a clearly expressed desire by a number of players to change the way the game works or end it.

[Ginngie]

@Players

it's not your fault

any time drealz mods a bad game, he blames it all on the players

[mutantdevle]

@Gamma, I'd like to apologise for killing you. I had you and TGP mixed up on my spreadsheet. I thought TGP was the PR and not you... I made that kill because I wanted to narrow down the pool or recruitments / unidentifieds. Obviously Gamma you had role claimed which meant you were identified but I marked TGP as your role on my spreadsheet :/

lol
that was honestly a mistake overall because I'd starting suspecting you less in Tit For Tat after you made a similar point to what I found sketchy from you there, so I was letting off you, but when I died I got spoilers that you were CL and had recruited srceenplay so I knew it was a behavior you had done as scum so I doubled down in the other game with that knowledge.

Oh wow... I do remember making a point that I had done in both games to make myself seem consistent to appeal to my meta more :3

When I realised my mistake, honestly what I thought in my head was that, since this game was in such a poor state, you could consider it a mercy killing as an apology for making that long shitty case on you in tit for tat

I just get you and TGP confused so much tbh and I really don't know why :/

[Cerberus v666]

So, there were 6 kills that were controllable by people who weren't recruited at game start, but one of them was recruitable. In addition, there were *multiple* means by which people could survive kills, and one shot BP on both cult leaders, along with a terrible timing mechanic for action submission.

I don't actually see how the neutrals were ever going to win, which is fine, that probably wasn't the point...but I also don't really see how either cult, without the ability to coordinate, was supposed to win either.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, I guess people stopped caring about this game, but I'd really like to figure out how to actually make it work...

[mutantdevle]

I don't think we should score people tbh, that would be a stupid idea

but you're winning!

Btw, this was a joke just for you drealmerz since I was scoring people on their culty-ness in my spreadsheet that I gave you access to view. I stopped updating that halfway through the game but I shouldn't have done because inferno had the highest cult score...

[Cerberus v666]

Can the cult leaders let me know how big their cults were? The action record is a mess.

[Chickadee]

I mean, I guess people stopped caring about this game, but I'd really like to figure out how to actually make it work...

I'd also be interested in figuring out how it could work.

Before the game began, i was really interested in playing it. Once things started unfolding (or rather, didn't), it was demotivating.






@everyone:
All of my kills were made before I was recruited btw.

Pedit: the cult I was recruited into was Vax, TGP, and myself. NO clue if anyone was recruited after me. Cult chat would have been really nice.

[mutantdevle]

Also, both recruits on play 8 should have been successful right?

Ignore this, I'm retarded.

[MathBlade]

Meh I quit caring when this wasn’t mafia and I had no agency.

Like a game with no prod limits and no ability to do anything is just bad.

[mutantdevle]

Can the cult leaders let me know how big their cults were? The action record is a mess.

I successfully recruited 4 people but then Chickabitch shot my man Boon's lover causing him to die So my cult had 4 players in the end including myself.

The other cult only managed to recruit 2 people.

So, in the end, it was 9v4v3.

[Cerberus v666]

Screenplay would have also been shot. So, after this long ass time, the game was still 9v3v3.

Ridiculous.

[Cerberus v666]

Can the cult leaders let me know how big their cults were? The action record is a mess.

I successfully recruited 4 people but then

Chickabitch

shot my man Boon's lover causing him to die So my cult had 4 players in the end including myself.

The other cult only managed to recruit 2 people.

So, in the end, it was 9v4v3.

Are you good friends with Chickadee and I just don't know it? Because if not, that's not something I'm okay with people saying...

[Cerberus v666]

Also, I'm very disappointed in both cult leaders for never even attempting to recruit me with 9 possible attempts.

[mutantdevle]

^^ I fully intend it as a joke though. No offence was meant.

[mutantdevle]

@drealmerz I read over the audience PT and I can understand your frustration. I'd personally enjoy the kind of game that you intended but you did overlook quite a few aspects. This game fell to shit and it was both the player's and the mod's fault.

At the very least though it's an experiment and should help you design more functional games like this in the future.

[Cerberus v666]

Audience PT? Link?

[Cerberus v666]

NM found it

[Mathdino]

Large themes should never be experiments imo
That said, everyone did sign up for a cult game, so I don't blame this game on bad mechanics. The mechanics were advertised.
I blame it on
- lack of clarity re: wincons
- lack of presence in thread
- incredibly long phases, this game should've been over long ago
- no prods or replacements when players literally requested replacement

[Cerberus v666]

So, I'm going to take the time to respond to everything drealm had to say about things I said, to express why he's wrong(and other, stronger things I could say but deleted and replaced with this ambiguous statement)

You should stop doing this. If you're going to make a game where time stamps matter, you need to have a set time when you'll accept the submission of actions, known long in advance, rather than just having action submission become allowable whenever you show up.

I wish players would PM me with things like this so I can engage them about it. Like, I can't even tell what his issue is.

if people knew exactly when actions could be submitted, it'd defeat the whole purpose, people would be setting alarms to get up and be first submitted or whatever, so many issues with that, and is boring/lame and just doesn't work flat out

over the course of the game the idea is that it will mostly be balanced because the switching to Play will just happen at random times, decided by different people, not allowing any pattern or predictability that would allow someone to try and 'work the system' to their advantage

I'm probably going to say this repeatedly, but here's the problem with this: You're essentially exacerbating the "activity" issue in a game like this. Instead of just requiring that people show up at one time, you're asking that they show up ALL the time, if they want their role to feel useful. Both options have problems, but the option you went with is simply inferior, not least because of the other negative mechanical effects that come along with it.

that is why it's bullshit that drealmerz is just arbitrarily starting the day phase.

I don't know why you'd assume it's arbitrary

Because there's no reason to *not* think it's arbitrary? Until the play/pause occurs at a particularly timely/untimely fashion *repeatedly* there's no reason to assume anyone but the moderator is in charge of a fundamental mechanical point like what phase we're in.

okay so it seems like cerb is only upset because he wants to be able to submit his action before other people

well duh, everyone wants that

It's not even that. Going first is great and all, but the problem is that without NAR/clear timings of things, there's no information to be gained from the actions taken. Someone shot at a cult leader, and they didn't die.

Nobody in the game blinked an eye at that, because there's no way to know(without full claiming of all actions taken by everyone, and the timing thereof) what CAUSED the kill to fail. You can't even limit the scenario down to they're BP, they were protected, or I was blocked, because if any of those things happened after you submitted your action(except the BP) it wouldn't have mattered.

This simply exacerbated the existing, underlying issues with the game.

...not impossible. Possibly ridiculous though.

I'm confident it'll all make sense once you see the full picture

No, it doesn't all make sense. As I said EARLY in the game, neutrals must have multiple, nonrecruitable, vigilantes, for them to have any chance at actually winning the game.

Instead you gave them two recruitable vigilantes, while the leaders had a 1 shot bp(should have been a limited BP until killed, with recruitment abilities passing to a designated recruit upon death, or something else, but not a friggin all game long 1 shot bp), and their own kill.

Please stop artificially extending the length of this game by making us waste time talking during a useless phase, when there's nothing to actually talk about because(as Varsoon has been saying) nobody has any agency.

it's not artificial and it's not under my control

you might find pause useless...others might not, especially as the game goes on

DID ANYONE FIND AN EXTENDED PAUSE USEFUL?

I'm convinced that the success or failure of any faction will be decided by chickadees shots,

that would be TERRIBLE game design

HOW DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE THAT THE GAME WOULD BE LIKE THAT?!?!?

seriously thinking I might just cancel the game

I thi more than half the PRs aren't even submitting actions at this point (two cycles now)

Yes, the success or failure of any faction *was* going to be decided by the vigs shots, eventually. Randomize all the important actions of the game, and literally the only thing that would determine wins/losses is shot accuracy from the vigs.

I explained why I wasn't acting in game and above. Nothing to be gained from it.

You know what would make this game more interesting? A counter telling how many each team has. I think it would increase engagement.

That and lynching.

YES! KNOWING SOMETHING WOULD BE AMAZING.

yes, well, I can't help that people are shitty players (looking at you snarky)

This wasn't your fault, except insofar as having the neutrals have only a single source of information and basically relying upon them getting all their information from a source that can't be confirmed...is terrible design. Terrible. Even if Snarky played this all perfectly, there are, again, far too many variables at play for an accurate recruitment counter to be anything more than a very dim light in the darkness.

I'm an unlimited jailkeeper, the sort that prevents ALL actions from being done to or by my target.

I can be used to 1) keep members of their cult alive, 2) stop recruit attempts by targeting likely recruits, and 3) stop ALL recruit attempts by repeatedly targeting the other cult leader.

Why wouldn't I be recruited by either cult if it were possible?

as long as you get the action in before any countering action to yourself or the action you are trying to prevent is submitted

why you haven't been recruited...well, one possible theory is that people aren't very good players

the recruits/attempts have been absolutely baffling...


until vax took over the CL spot from inferno (vax immediately recruited chickadee, successfully)

I did mention that the cult leaders could be incompetent as a possible explanation. I usually find it's better to assume competence on the part of ones enemies however.

Lift, the same standard of assumptions applies to EVERY consideration we can make about this game. You have essentially NO reason to think non-human flavor PRs are recruitable, and evidence(if you believe me, and Venmar) that in at least some cases they're (likely) not.

There is objectively MORE reason to believe that non-human flavor PRs are immune to recruitment than to believe they are vulnerable to it.

And no, my role does not state I'm immune to recruitment, as I've said already.

you know what makes the most sense? to not have it be so easily discernable and have no standard either way, ya?

oh and plus, ummm....it really doesn't make any sense that PRs wouldn't be recruitable...that doesn't have to mean all PRs are though

like wtf?

I SAID NON-HUMAN FLAVOR PR'S.

....

LIKE WTF LEARN TO READ WTF I SAY DREALM.

Literally something you said earlier in that thread that you considered having the game run that way, and then you shit on me expressing the belief that it makes sense for the game to be ran that way.