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DeasVail
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Post Post #3775  (ISO)  » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:21 pm

Shoshin! We didn’t kill each other!

Thank you for the game EP

Commander Shepard
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Post Post #3776  (ISO)  » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:23 pm

Gg all

Sorry for weird claims and amnesia

I don’t claim lightning rod if I knew that but I was just trying to survive

Ankamius
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Post Post #3777  (ISO)  » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:23 pm

<3 Pun

I tried to give you a fighting chance
True competence is ensuring your confidence is justified.

"Ank doesn't have bad reads. She's just bad at explaining them." -CheekyTeeky

Punreader
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Post Post #3778  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:28 am

In post 3764, MariaR wrote:Mfw I clear vax and everyone forgets it
I didn't! Not once did I call him pun. I needed him dead, but I knew he was town. Or at the very least on the final day not mafia.

In post 3751, Vaxkiller wrote:The WTF are you arguing pun, 5 man scum team?
No, I was arguing to let me try to win because I had a chance, and sure enough I was right. You could have let me win with you, but you jerks didn't.

In post 3771, Vaxkiller wrote:I gave pun a chance a few (game) days ago to come "clean" I might have believed him a little more if he "full claimed" then
I explained that but had you actually TALKED TO ME rather than HAMMERED ME I would have explained it further.

The simple fact was, when you asked me to claim, I couldn't claim, for three reasons.
Reason number one, if I claimed on that day, both alignments had incentive to want me dead; neither alignment had incentive to want me alive. It was not until the day that I claimed that both alignments had incentive to keep me alive, and less reason to want me dead. I needed to wait as a result.

Reason number two, even if both alignments did have reason to keep me alive (when at the time, they did not)...I was aiming to not choose a victor. Claiming would force me to choose a side. When the worst was lynched and you weren't nightkilled by the pun, I no longer could work the gamestate towards this.

Reason number three, even had I claimed and chosen a side, this would then motivate the opposite side to in retribution screw me over. For instance, if I outed the worst as pun, and the town believed me, then the pun would have no incentive to shoot you. Quite the opposite, they'd have incentive to keep you alive.

When they screwed me over by keeping you alive anyway, this point no longer mattered.

In short, the reason I didn't claim when you offered me the chance to is BECAUSE IF I HAD CLAIMED THEN IT WOULD HAVE COST ME THE GAME and I CLAIMED THE MOMENT CLAIMING WOULDN'T COST ME THE GAME.

In post 3768, TehBrawlGuy wrote:Unfortunate for Pun - he pretty much won the game for town and y'all just straight up murdered him instead of sharing the win.
Incidentally I sent this PM to the moderator which Errant likely forgot about:
Punreader wrote:I'll have you know that if I die because my reads were too accurate/on the point, I'm counting this game as a win regardless of what my official wincon may say. :P
Let me give an Alternative perspective.

Firebringer
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Post Post #3779  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:43 am

i am glad mastina lost.
Eddie Cane

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Post Post #3780  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:59 am

In post 52, Pine wrote:She tried so hard to discredit me, it was suuuper obvious she saw me as a paramount threat.
No, I saw you as pun.

Now granted.

I thought my shot on you was guaranteed to fail because I thought you were pun and thus would have punbuddies artificially boost your score up higher.
But I shot trying to hit pun, not trying to hit town. You being a threat never once crossed my mind. Quite the opposite, I was expecting you to live the whole game and for the punteam with you on it to endgame the town. (Thus the infection on you; I figured that if I infected pun that was guaranteed to live I'd win.)

My plan just had a couple of small flaws to it. :shifty:

In post 89, Taly wrote:If Pun wants to win and survive, he better start shooting scum.
I did!

Twice!

One was immune and I thought I was shooting town when shooting said pun, but that's beside the point! (And again I genuinely thought my Pine shot would be on pun.)

In post 147, Taly wrote:EVEN THE SK KNOWS WHEN TO LISTEN TO DEAD TOWN.

THE SK. IS THE MOST PRO-TOWN RN. XD
BECAUSE I WAS DEFAULTING TO TOWNSIDING THE WHOLE GAME

In post 169, Commander Shepard wrote:Damnnnn it noooooooo!!!

Punreader figures out my wine gosh darn it.
I told the town! The trick used was a good enough one to deceive me, but once I knew what it was, I could expose it!

In post 191, the worst wrote:I actually hard claimed scum to Pun at the start of the day Hahaha they pokerfaced it fucking wonderfully I love them
It did catch me off-guard but I did try my best to hide it.

In post 233, Krazy wrote:Siding with the worst was a fatal mistake for Pun, there's like no way he survives now
I didn't side with the worst, as is evident by how I was lynching a different pun. It's not my fault if I'm advocating for the lynch of ONE pun, but the town decides to lynch a DIFFERENT pun. (Which happened twice this game mind you!)

In post 246, Krazy wrote:ALSO YOU WERE RIGHT, I ALMOST SAID TO KILL GUAC EVEN AFTER THE HAMMER, I JUST DIDNT HIT SUBMIT BEFORE ERRANT LOCKED THE THREAD
SHOSHIN I TOLD YOU SO.
Let me give an Alternative perspective.

Firebringer
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Post Post #3781  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:10 am

In post 3779, Firebringer wrote:i am glad mastina lost.
Eddie Cane

Vaxkiller
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Post Post #3782  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:30 am

WAIT. Is PUN a mastina alt????????
Vaxkiller is not anti-vaccine, he is a killer of Vax machines.

Games played.

Shoshin
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Post Post #3783  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:09 am

In post 3775, DeasVail wrote:Shoshin! We didn’t kill each other!

Thank you for the game EP

Yes! We came together! And it was beautiful!

I enjoyed playing with you, DV. Sorry I got paranoid of you after reading your games, so sorry. Your philosphical musings were great!

Firebringer
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Post Post #3784  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:53 am

In post 3782, Vaxkiller wrote:WAIT. Is PUN a mastina alt????????

yes
Eddie Cane

Ankamius
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Post Post #3785  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:04 pm

Hey Shoshin

Can you unpack what you caught me with please? I still don't really understand it
True competence is ensuring your confidence is justified.

"Ank doesn't have bad reads. She's just bad at explaining them." -CheekyTeeky

Shoshin
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Post Post #3786  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:02 pm

You weren't scumhunting. The idea that scum wanted to lynch Pun just didn't make any sense from a town perspective, and it made even less sense when you said that you wouldn't have pushed Pun's lynch as scum. Town don't suspect people for things that they themselves wouldn't do as scum. And that showed me that you weren't actually scumhunting. There's other things but that's the one that made me 100% to the point of lynching you before Pun.

Shoshin
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Post Post #3787  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:03 pm

I think Pun shouldn't have killed guac. I actually would have been open to letting her win with us if she'd actually town-sided, but killing guac was clearly scum-motivated, regardless of what she claims.

Shoshin
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Post Post #3788  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:09 pm

Super happy with how our team came together, especially Vax, DV, and Krazy towards the end of the game.

Also, @Maria, sorry I suspected you, you were actually awesome in retrospect and I was unfair to you. I started to realize when Shepard came into the game that you two couldn't be aligned but I was conf biased at that point, something I'll be watching out for in the future.

And thanks EP for modding!

Ankamius
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Post Post #3789  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:18 pm

In post 3786, Shoshin wrote:You weren't scumhunting. The idea that scum wanted to lynch Pun just didn't make any sense from a town perspective, and it made even less sense when you said that you wouldn't have pushed Pun's lynch as scum. Town don't suspect people for things that they themselves wouldn't do as scum. And that showed me that you weren't actually scumhunting. There's other things but that's the one that made me 100% to the point of lynching you before Pun.


Mmm...

Any specific differences from Labyrinth? This by itself is hard to parse since I generally read scum intent in other ways (which does include things I wouldn't do as scum, like the Krazy kill this game)
True competence is ensuring your confidence is justified.

"Ank doesn't have bad reads. She's just bad at explaining them." -CheekyTeeky

Shoshin
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Post Post #3790  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:25 pm

Again, scumhunting differences: in Labyrinth you were speculating about all sorts of crazy theories, whereas here you went straight to the obvious simplistic theory of scum lynching Pun.

You were also much more aggressive and confident in yourself in Labyrinth. The feel of your play was just very different.

MariaR
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Post Post #3791  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:33 pm

In post 3788, Shoshin wrote:Also, @Maria, sorry I suspected you, you were actually awesome in retrospect and I was unfair to you. I started to realize when Shepard came into the game that you two couldn't be aligned but I was conf biased at that point, something I'll be watching out for in the future.

It's fine! We got the shep kill in the end so it all worked out I was gonna be rly salty if you got lynched with how obv town you were.
I bet Maria is scum this game~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~ Charloux

Wanna know more about Maria? Click here!

Ankamius
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Post Post #3792  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:37 pm

The wild speculating in Labyrinth was primarily from me trying to fit my gamestate reads into a box that made sense

A lot of my scum hunting comes from trying to get a read into what scum are trying to do and fitting specific players into that mold; this is sort of the reason why my reads early on were actually very close to the correct answer (I had over half of the playerlist as town, all of whom except the traitor we didn't have to kill were town) but got worse over time. The confidence generally comes from how well I'm able to read the gamestate and get reads from it.

That's essentially the reason I went into a death tunnel on you after night 3; I was starting to realize my correct reads were on the town end and was shifting into that mindset... and then CShep died and it was really difficult to rationalize town allowing that, which drove my reads off a cliff.

You mentioned when duckling posted a quote from another game that it was far better than anything I had posted in that game; that's usually the kind of thing that results when I can get a good read on the game, although my role colored my approach to the game too.

My approach just varies wildly in every game, which... well, is a big reason my scumgame sucks and why it feels so random how I get caught every game :P
True competence is ensuring your confidence is justified.

"Ank doesn't have bad reads. She's just bad at explaining them." -CheekyTeeky

Punreader
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Post Post #3793  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:15 pm

In post 3787, Shoshin wrote:I think Pun shouldn't have killed guac. I actually would have been open to letting her win with us if she'd actually town-sided, but killing guac was clearly scum-motivated, regardless of what she claims.
Krazy says otherwise.
In post 246, Krazy wrote:ALSO YOU WERE RIGHT, I ALMOST SAID TO KILL GUAC EVEN AFTER THE HAMMER, I JUST DIDNT HIT SUBMIT BEFORE ERRANT LOCKED THE THREAD
Keep in mind I was under the impression Krazy would have lived to see daystart.

Given that I thought Krazy would live, and Krazy would have pushed guacamole as pun, I was right.

The shot was beneficial to the town. Or at least, would have been, had Krazy not been the nightkill.
Let me give an Alternative perspective.

Krazy
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Post Post #3794  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:29 pm

Yeah, I think this was a bit unwinnable for you though. I had a strong suspicion that the worst had hardclaimed scum to you in the PM and almost certainly lynch you right there with Sho and DV (if Vax gets killed). While you might not think you 'sided' with the worst, putting so much of your main case of the day on Sho and reading so transparently as 'SK talking to scum' that there is no way I believe you after the worst gets lynched.

I think that you made it to endgame as basically claimed SK is, if not a win, then at least a serious credit to your third party play
vote conspiracy

Vaxkiller
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Post Post #3795  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:56 pm

In post 3787, Shoshin wrote:I think Pun shouldn't have killed guac. I actually would have been open to letting her win with us if she'd actually town-sided, but killing guac was clearly scum-motivated, regardless of what she claims.


Naw, I wanted gauc dead, I wasn't sure about them.
Vaxkiller is not anti-vaccine, he is a killer of Vax machines.

Games played.

Punreader
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Post Post #3796  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:01 pm

In post 3794, Krazy wrote:I had a strong suspicion that the worst had hardclaimed scum to you in the PM and almost certainly lynch you right there with Sho and DV (if Vax gets killed). While you might not think you 'sided' with the worst, putting so much of your main case of the day on Sho and reading so transparently as 'SK talking to scum' that there is no way I believe you after the worst gets lynched.
Not even after I laid out explicitly that he did in fact claim to me and laid out exactly why I did the things I was doing? How the plan was to make sure I lynched the unknown pun so that I had the opportunity to lynch the worst at any time if need be?

In post 3795, Vaxkiller wrote:I wanted gauc dead, I wasn't sure about them.
I feel increasingly vindicated.
Let me give an Alternative perspective.

Krazy
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Post Post #3797  (ISO)  » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:20 pm

In post 3796, Punreader wrote:Not even after I laid out explicitly that he did in fact claim to me and laid out exactly why I did the things I was doing? How the plan was to make sure I lynched the unknown pun so that I had the opportunity to lynch the worst at any time if need be?


Well I was dead at that point so I don't know how living me would have responded.
vote conspiracy

Krazy
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Post Post #3798  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:21 pm

@Errant, was there any objection to scum PT? I'm not like dying to see it but I am a bit curious
vote conspiracy

Ankamius
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Post Post #3799  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:22 pm

Wasn't from me if there was
True competence is ensuring your confidence is justified.

"Ank doesn't have bad reads. She's just bad at explaining them." -CheekyTeeky

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