Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

the worst
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Post Post #5350  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:57 am

By that metric I'm not sure how anyone can be a good third party tbh, but I think this is the point where it's best I stop engaging because I'm pretty lacking in experience here.

Tbh I think this game is evidence that you have a strong towngame and good reads. if you feel this strongly again imo it's all the more reason you whole back yourself on this stuff.

Having a sound PoE in a multiball game and scumreading widely townread scum is impressive as fuck.

the worst
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Post Post #5351  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:01 am

NM had me nailed d1 here; you had Shoshin nailed d1 here. I think either of you digging in your heels harder and insisting people question themselves harder and harder could have changed a lot.

If people don't wanna engage with you because of out of game reasons, fuck em

I think there was a world where a secondary townblock formed around {you, Xtoxm} earlier on fwiw. both of you mutually townread each other but I think the way you backed off such a strong read on Shoshin did a bit of harm to the momentum.

I'm just kinda stream of consciousness posting because like.. you were legitimately a force to be reckoned with day one (which I didn't anticipate) :/ I don't think it's fair for you to be so harsh on yourself. performer suggested you as a n1 kill in like, fucking pregame

Keyser Söze
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Post Post #5352  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:01 am

Congrats Zerg!
When I rolled scum in this playerlist I did shed a tear, but working with TW and Performer was great. TW truly was the MVP here, orchestrating the main plays, manipulating town and that final masterwork of making sure Nancy blocked Vars, guaranteeing our NK for the win. Plus the decision to rolecop Soshin was crucial too (finding out she was a killing 3P and that we wouldn’t be able to NK her).

Even in our scum PT, TW was a driving force (we were still scum hunting... our PT felt like a masonry). It was great to work through our setup theories and survival tactics with Performer too.

My actual scum performance here was admittedly weak and underwhelming (I was overgamed and never truly ‘connected’ with the game), but I still had an important role in achieving misslynches, stopping my scum partners in getting lynched and completing night actions to help win the game. I shouldn’t have been left standing as one of the final two players!

The orgasmic group excitement of that quickhammer on Koki was amazing, and their flip sent our team into ecstasy.

Thanks Krazy for a wonderfully entertaining game! I did think the game was balanced: town just needed to push through the lynches on obv-scum. I think TW would have lone-wolfed ftw anyway though.

Mitillos
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Post Post #5353  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:05 am

I would suggest that I was a reasonably good 3p. I needed to make it to N3, and afterwards I needed to die since I was a non-killing role and town wanted to eliminate killing roles. I also wanted as many town deaths as possible and managed to be part of three of them by the time I was lynched (I don't count irrel's death as being something I caused, because that was just luck and not something I planned to do).
You don't have ambiguity; you have options.

the worst
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Post Post #5354  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:07 am

You did play well, given the caveat in your role pm. I'm just still a little bit salty because I wanted you alive longer. :( your night actions were GOAT.

Varsoon
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Post Post #5355  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:08 am

In post 5350, the worst wrote:By that metric I'm not sure how anyone can be a good third party tbh, but I think this is the point where it's best I stop engaging because I'm pretty lacking in experience here.

Tbh I think this game is evidence that you have a strong towngame and good reads. if you feel this strongly again imo it's all the more reason you whole back yourself on this stuff.

Having a sound PoE in a multiball game and scumreading widely townread scum is impressive as fuck.


The irony of this is that the last time I backed myself in this exact sort of situation where someone positioned my aggro as out-of-game influenced, I was baited into getting so frustrated with their position that I spouted enough vitriol to catch a signup ban and eat a D1 lynch AND the person I was pushing ended up being town anyway.
So, nah.

I'm just shit at this game.

Varsoon
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Post Post #5356  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:10 am

I get far too involved, far too upset, and far too passionate about it, especially when setup design is literally hand-crafted to ruin me.

the worst
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Post Post #5357  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:11 am

You know you better than I know you, but I definitely think you're undervaluing your skills a fair bit. keeping frustration in check is a bitch, though. it's so easy to get frustrated in mafia.

Varsoon
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Post Post #5358  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:13 am

In post 2876, Varsoon wrote:You haven't left an impact on me so far D2 is what I mean by 'not around'. I guess it's a cynical 'not around'--like you're not around in my head/perspective?
You're not townleading like you were D1, imo.
I don't think it makes you scum, I just think your confidence is shaken.

Why do you think that a game that's literally got two deaths on N1, with a town even-Vig and PGO, with SPECIFIC FLAVOR FOR THEIR KILLS, all of which who have been TOWN and TERRAN, based on a franchise known for its multifactional intrigue and warfare, isn't multiball?
How is this not connecting for you, Shoshin?

P-EDIT:
I'm not expecting you to suck. I thought you'd be doing good because you actually are a good player.
I think your reads are either heavily wrong because you refused to consider multiball in D1 reads and you haven't re-evaluated OR you're scum.
I'm trying to hash that out.
I think Town Shoshin is far less likely to be stubborn about this being multiball, though, and would be quick to re-assess.
That's why I'm trying to beat you over the head with it because
Honestly
You're my best chances as winning this if you're town.
You're a lot better at coming to conclusions about alignments than I am, especially in larger games.


Oh hey look another moment when I was right and I backed off from it because Shoshin positioned it as out-of-game 'you just think I suck/expecting me to suck'
Yaaay

Keyser Söze
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Post Post #5359  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:13 am

Sorry, congrats Mit too!
(It would have been fun if you’d teamed up, but can understand your paranoia).

Varsoon
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Post Post #5360  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:14 am

In post 5357, the worst wrote:You know you better than I know you, but I definitely think you're undervaluing your skills a fair bit. keeping frustration in check is a bitch, though. it's so easy to get frustrated in mafia.


Yeah
It's like
When I back down because I know my aggro will erupt, I'm wrong and shouldn't have backed away
When I don't back down, I get scumread for it and even catch bans
so

I'm the problem
:/

Varsoon
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Post Post #5361  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:15 am

But yeah, the worst, congrats on driving your scumteam to victory.
I know that our PRs and Kokichi's play made it pretty easy for you but, honestly, I think Kokichi only did that D3 IC gambit because of me, which makes me feel that much more responsible for us losing.

Varsoon
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Post Post #5362  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:16 am

In post 3162, Varsoon wrote:Yeah actually
VOTE: Keyser
I don't buy the claim as town.
Gunsmith works perfectly fine as an anti-town role since we're confirmed to have a Vigilante and a PGO.
Lynch this.

In post 3051, Varsoon wrote:Really important shit if I die tonight, but I'm sure you numbskulls will completely not listen to me:
Performer is very likely scum with that claim.
If Kokichi isn't confirmed as town, he is confirmed as scum.
Look really really close at what I've posted today. It'll serve as your roadmap to scum.
Don't let this be another TAZ.


Jesus
Like seriously
Ugh
Fuck I suck at this

Mitillos
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Post Post #5363  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:18 am

@Varsoon: I still think you're great at this game, when you want to be. If irrel was still alive on N2, I would have probably sent you to him, because you scared me. I also think that you are being a bit solipsist here. The game is not just about you. There are other players too, and the ones who ruined you were the scum players who played to their wincon, and the town players who didn't. Kokichi was worth 3 votes, and he squandered them, and you definitely didn't tell him to. N_M had the reads and was too stubborn to explain them and got mislynched.
You don't have ambiguity; you have options.

Mitillos
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Post Post #5364  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:19 am

@Keyser: I was actually responding to tw (who also still needs to read my post to him in the dead thread), but thanks all the same.
You don't have ambiguity; you have options.

the worst
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Post Post #5365  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:20 am

Definitely don't feel responsible for how that LyLo went. the gambit was fantastic on principle (he was one activation and one fewer vote away from confscumming me, and that's not lost on me). Actually Kokichi stopped reading the gamestate while you were reading it perfectly. You're very far from responsible imo.

Varsoon
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Post Post #5366  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:20 am

Yeah, look, I think, in general, town played weakly and scum skirted out and grabbed the win for it.
Even if I was right, I didn't put my foot down because the whole Shoshin thing wrecked my confidence and other out-of-game shit made me really not want to confidently push anything because it could mean my site-ban got escalated to something harsher.

the worst
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Post Post #5367  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:21 am

In post 5364, Mitillos wrote:@Keyser: I was actually responding to tw (who also still needs to read my post to him in the dead thread), but thanks all the same.

Oh I read the posts btw; I was originally gonna ask if you use discord or anything so I could pick your brain but it makes a lot of sense to me now. Sorry I haven't reacted too much yet; just mulling it over a little. It's kinda unfair of me to assume you'd stick around for endgame when you'd already like fulfilled your wincon to a 80%+ probability level :P

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Post Post #5368  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:22 am

Anyway, basically everything I wrote here still stands:

In post 3749, Varsoon wrote:I'll still probably mod but I think I'm awful at the actual game of mafia.
Like particularly game-throwingly bad.

In post 3752, Varsoon wrote:I'll be around but I've got no conviction.
It annoys me.
I'm town but I don't even read all of everyone's posts.
I skim so much content and generally don't engage or make efforts at game solving.
I like to boast when I luck out on a read but that's all empty showboating.
There's nothing worse than knowing that I'm not doing enough and that other people might lose the game because I can't feel the urgency to commit more.
I feel like I'm awful at analysis.
I get so biased and caught up in 'what-if' scenarios.
And when I do think someone is scum, I'll entrench so hard it ruins the game and hard-flavors everyone's perceptions.
I've been trying to get better but it feels fruitless.
I hate this struggle, being in games but being a liability and a sham.
I hate when I think I have something figured out but everyone else just kinda doesn't agree.
I hate how personally invested I get in games I'm only even half-reading.
I hate how when I get really invested like that, I ad-hom and lash out and bias how I read players.
I think it's never been helpful for town, not once.
I couldn't even tell you all the living players in this game.
I outright forgot Irrelephant was one of the players killed.

I'm sorry to let everyone else down like this.
I won't do it again.

In post 3753, Varsoon wrote:I'm bad at playing with others and horrible at solving on my own. I'm not really cut out for it.
I really like mafia. I like this big rhetorical game of trying to solve alignments, find out who your allies really are, etc.
I think it's made needlessly frustrating by multiball, though. That's what really destroys me.
That and setups designed in a way meant to make me come to wrong conclusions.
And it feels like this is all of that.
I can't stand it.

In post 3754, Varsoon wrote:A good player is able to grow beyond their faults, trust when they need to, analyze the rhetoric, find scum, obv-town, and lead weaker players.
I don't think I can really do any of that.

the worst
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Post Post #5369  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:24 am

In post 5366, Varsoon wrote:Yeah, look, I think, in general, town played weakly and scum skirted out and grabbed the win for it.
Even if I was right, I didn't put my foot down because the whole Shoshin thing wrecked my confidence and other out-of-game shit made me really not want to confidently push anything because it could mean my site-ban got escalated to something harsher.

That's definitely a fair generalisation I think. town just didn't find itself without scum intervention.

Nauci
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Post Post #5370  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:25 am

In post 5337, Varsoon wrote:I think that Shoshin did play well, but it's largely out of multiball considerations, since she could still actually, y'know, scumhunt.
And even though she played well, she still lost, because, y'know,
SETUP MISGIVINGS HERE

Also, yeah, I had fun on D1/D2, I guess? Maybe?
I don't really remember.
Glad I could play another one out with you, Xtoxm
Have more confidence in your reads and lay more casework next time.


I was literally never going to be able to catch Shoshin except when she insisted on lynching Mitillos and that the game was winnable, because I just couldn't imagine that there was a 2nd 3P who actively needs to scum hunt to win

the worst
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Post Post #5371  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:26 am

yeah we straight up thought she was softing witch with uuuhhhhhh

the worst
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Post Post #5372  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:27 am

In post 4890, Shoshin wrote:
In post 4887, Keyser Söze wrote:@Mitillos
Are you the witch?
There are 3 Zerg left, we can win together.
If you don't out yourself, you'll probably be lynched.

lol...

Nauci
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Post Post #5373  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:27 am

In post 5338, Mitillos wrote:and with worst blocking your nuke


The way that keyser's rolecop revealed all those details about her role was absolutely brutal for arson winning

Nauci
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Post Post #5374  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:29 am

In post 5338, Mitillos wrote:@Nauci:


I think my tone by that day conveyed the sheer level of despair and apathy I had for solving this game, regardless of my role

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