Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[Menalque]

menalque let's play another game sometime

I'm kinda curious about your style now

I'd be down for that but I don't think this game is a good example of my style for all the reasons listed above

[Menalque]

Also, re: balance. I think the setup as originally set-up was mildly scum-sided due to the unrealistic expectation that town would be sensible enough to not madly pursue fruit. However, I think that jinglenet meant that in the end the game ended up balanced.

[Pine]

The Temptation of Menalque (tm) is the only time I used Jinglenet for attempted mechanical advantage.

[Ankamius]

God, I played like fucking trash this game. Sorry to literally everyone on town but especially gamma, fb, and Ali.

I'm honestly just frustrated with myself about what feels like a long series of bad decisions culminating in the game losing vote, alongside a total failure to prosecute anything that I was actually right on in the game, or even to really push it mostly.

I think scum played very well, so I guess the reason I was upset is it just felt like I fucked up one thing after another this game.

you're being too hard on yourself.

Wrong SRs on chicka/ank early on.

this isn't necessarily a bad thing, in my case specifically you don't actually know how I play the game or that reading me is... weird. that's the kind of thing you need experience in

and really, perfect d1 reads is honestly more a detriment than a benefit in a lot of cases so having some incorrect reads d1 isn't a bad thing if you can make up for it by self-correcting later in the game

Missing ank's crumb.

just about everybody did, and that's mainly because I specifically played to make it not obvious. it really didn't help that the player with the most (recent) insight into how I play was also scum.

Not trying to push back against DGB/think about that more critically.
Getting locked into an idiotic SR on pops and Titus.

recognizing the difference between your good and bad reads is one of the best possible things you can have as a skill in this game, at least this is how I improved my read strength over time

Not pushing PP hard enough.

be careful with this, sometimes forcing lynches through is necessary but it's almost always a last resort

Thinking both the masons were plausibly scum.

this is a GOOD thing, having the masons be in nullscum territory was the perfect spot for them as long as the gamestate didn't hit a point where simplifying the game by flipping nulls is the optimal choice

Not being able to parse the WIFOM from Pine's deal correctly.

idk why this would ever be a good idea in the first place tbh

Voting mastina despite thinking she was town because I thought that resolving the issue would help the gamestate enough for it to be worth losing one town considering I wasn't certain about her.

not necessarily a bad thing, but the issue was more if she needed to be resolved before flipping bodyguard, it had to be done d2. she got lynched way too late in the game for it to have any benefit to the gamestate at all

Right that PB's interactions were off with me but let that go and allowed him to pocket me by halfway through the game, despite knowing that my early reads are often better than my late game ones.
Noticing that things were weird between dann/krazy but not really pushing it.

you have a sharp intuition, pay attention to it

Mislynching fb.
Casting that vote on gamma when I knew that dann was more likely scum, I just didn't really think that gamma could genuinely think that pine's deal was theatre.

the game was fucked before either of these lynches happened, I think both of these lynches were inevitably going to happen no matter what by that point in the game.

I appreciate people saying that this was a hard game or that I played decently, but I just think that up to my own standards I was really subpar here. I think I'm ready to engage with the thread again, and would welcome any feedback if people are willing to provide it for me.

honestly, I think the game was out of your hands

town had too many disadvantageous things happen early on in the game and the way it progressed was always going to be an issue for people to get anything concrete done until it was too late.

there's not really anything you can do about that unless you have the ability to bend people out of their tunnels, which is a rare enough ability in of itself, but I think the specific names in play would've made it basically impossible for anybody to stop once it got going

and since that gamestate was allowed to fester for so long, it's legitimately hard for people to see the game from a non-biased lens and so it's a massive uphill battle to get anything done from there

shrug

[Pine]

You did fine, Menalque. In particular, you were pretty Towny and made several solid critical choices. Being defeated in honorable battle is no shame.

[Wooper]

You did fine, Menalque. In particular, you were pretty Towny and made several solid critical choices. Being defeated in honorable battle is no shame.

this yeah

you played well, menaphos, also ilu

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Pine

why didn't you just listen to my list to find the masons?

I told you

it was GreyICE

and one of Katsuki and Maria.

[Pine]

Oh I did. Grey and Kats were top suspects, and we shot Grey N1 because of it. The Great Mason Hunt was a POE effort to confirm and find the other one.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh I did. Grey and Kats were top suspects, and we shot Grey N1 because of it. The Great Mason Hunt was a POE effort to confirm and find the other one.

It was obviously a PoE of 2

is what I was saying.

Maria was suspected too after D2

you could have shot Katsu n2 easily

[Pine]

Yawwwwn

[Firebringer]

Spoiler: Long Rant Ignore if you don't want #drama

Okay so this game honestly all falls on Alisae and his masonry plays.

I am not gonna say that as FUCK HIM AND HIS MASONS THEY SUCK AND DESERVE IT. But take that takeaway if you want, idc.

I am saying that because alisae and his masons made the calls on everything that we eventually did. We followed him, for better or worse. Should we have not? I don't think so and I pushed against that and it caused a lot of town apathy which is my fault for engaging in, but we shouldn't have followed alisae and my own fault is for allowing myself and game to just apathy follow him. We pushed for what alisae wanted throughout the game and any time it came into contention it falled flat onto alisae and I think as something_smart said the game really encourages us heavily into sheeping alisae which is okay depending on alisae approach that leadership and I don't think it was good for a fun game. It was alisae game featuring these other people.

We could have had a game where alisae lead the game and was working with everyone to figure out the best course of action, and sometimes it seemed like alisae was going in that direction, but he was only paying lipservice to that. In the end as I said days ago when we were lynching penguinpower, if we succeed it was because of alisae and if we fail its because of alisae. It was not much of a team effort, except what was going on in the masonry thread which is the reasons we got LLD lynch and mastina lynch. Obviously one being a great boon for the game.

I don't want to say this and just get "ohh ur just shirking ur own problems with how you played" but like. I think the only critiscism to my play wouldn't have changed the outcome? Maybe it would have avoided my own mislynch by not being as much of a dick. Sure, could have. That might have saved alisae a mislynch. I just think all the decisions fell on him, we let him. If you want to throw blame on people and don't want to blame alisae you should blame people for following alisae because it was alisae decisions we all sheeped. I blame myself for sheeping to town mislynches mastina/chennisden. DGB I think was only one I am not 100% right now if was alisae pushing for but she pushed for own lynch. Which I thought "yeah this is a mislynch" and still went for.

So I guess, whose at fault, the leader or the followers. Did we give the leader too much or did the leader ask to much and should have done more to work with his allies instead of asking so much. I am in the second camp more so than the first but see the first merits because I came into direct conflict with alisae throughout the game and should have known better than to give in but I did. All the while by adding toxicity onto the pile which I could have done more diplomatically if I was gonna disagree with the decision making going on.

Anyways. That's all. This was alisae game and I think any unfun from it was because of alisae approach to it, if you had fun good for you and I hope to play with anyone who really enjoyed this game.

Wooper was the best at the diplomatic disagreements and deserves a lot of praise for his good reading and not creating the toxicity I did when he did push against the game. Mena was very cleary town and even though I don't think his reads were great or he had a good way of solving was doing fine for a town player here. MariaR and Dunn were being lazy.

Also pops was great.

I loved the scum team, they were all fun. Except for Pine who was a bad tree and is why I took over his scum team.

[Pine]

Dude

Firebringer

Fuck off

You are really crossing a line here

[Firebringer]

Nope

[Gamma Emerald]

The Temptation of Menalque (tm) is the only time I used Jinglenet for attempted mechanical advantage.

Wait what was Jinglenet

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Fire brings something fair up but I also feel like he should realize this is the second time he’s been lynched for a certain pattern of behavior.

[Firebringer]

I think Fire brings something fair up but I also feel like he should realize this is the second time he’s been lynched for a certain pattern of behavior.

I don't mind getting lynched that much.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm joining team Firebringer

Alisae was trash and e is single handedly responsible for this loss and e should admit that e is solely responsible for all town losses on this site

[RadiantCowbells]

Can I blame Katsuki as well fire is that allowed

[Firebringer]

I'm joining team Firebringer

Alisae was trash and e is single handedly responsible for this loss and e should admit that e is solely responsible for all town losses on this site

FUCK TEAM FIREBRINGER

I AM JOINING TEAM SEAL

Can I blame Katsuki as well fire is that allowed

no katsuki is the best mason

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Fire brings something fair up but I also feel like he should realize this is the second time he’s been lynched for a certain pattern of behavior.

I don't mind getting lynched that much.

Well I mind when you waste mislynches for town by being an ass

[Firebringer]

I think Fire brings something fair up but I also feel like he should realize this is the second time he’s been lynched for a certain pattern of behavior.

I don't mind getting lynched that much.

Well I mind when you waste mislynches for town by being an ass

I like my ass tho

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not recording this game as a loss btw Alisae literally gamethrew I reported em for every offense on the list + unskilled player

[RadiantCowbells]

I too like Firebringer's ass

[Firebringer]

I'm not recording this game as a loss btw Alisae literally gamethrew I reported em for every offense on the list + unskilled player

wow this is crossing a line imo

[Firebringer]

not the reporting alisae part btw, the not recording this game.
that's fucking uncalled for