BooneyToonz XIII: To Boon or Not To Boon - [END]

[Venus and Mars]

I’m not answering things I’ve already explained.

This is one of the things that causes unnecessary friction in games.
If there is someone who doesn't understand, then you have not explained. Answering questions is the only right thing to do.

Or he can actually make an effort to try to read me better and not throw unwarrented shade at me but I’m not upset about him asking me questions, I’m annoyed by the WAY he’s been asking those questions.

[Bambi Jay]

Now I'm super invested again. Thanks guys.

We're actually getting somewhere, so I guess I can ISO flippy?

[Venus and Mars]

sometimes the wording someone used is confusing, or the player just didn't get it that time, and restating it differently can help.
if Boon refused to clarify ever because he answered once and we found it confusing, that would be a problem.

I don’t respond well when I feel unfairly attacked, which is how BP’s “questions” are coming across to me.

[Chara]

Almost: i enjoy both of your vote options (Joan & Nips). was wondering if you had any read on Drew? i know you're still catching up.

davesaz: do you ever hydra?

Bambi: i was wondering what you thought of my comparison of this game to our previous Death Note game together. in terms of using it to inform part of my read. i don't know the post number but if you feel like searching your name in my rather long ISO i believe it's recent enough.

my current gamewide thoughts are that scum are mostly in the lower posters. of the players posting a lot, the only ones TR with enough strength to not consider right now or ever if things don't change are: V&M, Titus, Haggle (mechanical based on dave's result), Almost, Bambi, davesaz, Amrun.

higher posters i don't TR strongly: chkflip, Drew, RCE.

Drew: the lack of TR doesn't mean i want to lynch it right now. the gamestate and way his wagon went unopposed make me think mislynch or designated bus.

RCE: he's towny but not strong enough to put higher. pretty much agree with his thoughts on things. the suspicion of me for TRing him early i think comes from town more than scum usually.

chkflip: he says everything i agree with but with a spunkier, less measured tone. if i'm entirely off my game in this one, chkflip is probably scum. if i'm not completely fucking this up, he's probably town. i'd like to play more games with him.

sounds like a cop-out (and feels like one) to say that but i do believe that most of the drawn out several-page arguments have been TvT, with the possible exception of chk though it'd be very nice if he was town for several reasons.
it's only day 2 but i would say this doesn't feel like a game controlled by scum, but rather one with a very disconnected town.

[Chara]

Now I'm super invested again. Thanks guys.

We're actually getting somewhere, so I guess I can ISO flippy?

oh hell yes. what made you invested?

[davesaz]

davesaz: do you ever hydra?

I have at times, not something I do a lot.

[Chara]

I don’t respond well when I feel unfairly attacked, which is how BP’s “questions” are coming across to me.

that's fair. i didn't personally read any of it as attacks, but then again i'm not the one he's talking to.
i definitely felt like replying angrily when Titus dismissed me last night when i said i was feeling burnt out with "go talk to Nips in your PT". but she did say she was drunk before i even started speaking to her, and it wasn't exactly an insult to begin with.
but what i my point is that i understand the feeling.

[Haggle]

sometimes the wording someone used is confusing, or the player just didn't get it that time, and restating it differently can help.
if Boon refused to clarify ever because he answered once and we found it confusing, that would be a problem.

I don’t respond well when I feel unfairly attacked, which is how BP’s “questions” are coming across to me.

Nancy, I already got cleared by Dave. So if I'm asking you a question its genuine. That doesnt mean I'm correct, but my agenda is to discern your alignment through tracking your logic. Not to shade you or make you look bad.

BP

[Bambi Jay]

Now I'm super invested again. Thanks guys.

We're actually getting somewhere, so I guess I can ISO flippy?

oh hell yes. what made you invested?

What else? Murder.

But yeah I realized Nips has coasted on Almost giving him an out and hasnt done squat. I don't like it. Unlike Joan who's unapologetically doing nothing, it seems like he's here but choosing to not contribute.

[Chara]

davesaz: do you ever hydra?

I have at times, not something I do a lot.

if you were ever inclined, i'd be interested sometime.
i also avoid hydraing with players other than Almost, but how you approach games has piqued my curiousity about how it'd work out.

[davesaz]

Someone asked me for a Joan read, quite a while back. Behavior wise, scumlean. Not interested in lynching a potential doc. Most likely self resolving, and not gonna make it to lylo one way or the other.

[The Fonz]

A50 should check with the mod. The phrasing of mine is pretty clear. My ability works only on the scum faction or people who check as that, but I die if I get a hood.

See, that's how A50s works functionally so it's not a check with the mod thing. The problem is that he also claimed weak in addition to desperate, but given what you're telling us about what desperate means, it's already weak.

BP

Dug into this while catching up. BT discussion thread in MD says that desperate can, but doesn't have to, include the weak part, and that it's at Boon's discretion. Searching posts by Boon with the word desperate yields previous controversies in games about whether or not desperate implies weak.

My best guess? A50's role is tagged both desperate and weak to avoid confusion about whether it is weak on flip. That the Renegade given modifier is different to the one attached to a role from the start is likely Boon trying to troll/punish Town for not actually reading the BT modifiers list.

[Amrun]

I have no reason to believe in the boogeyman existing.

I know there's a Renegade. That much is proven. From what they gave Titus I'd wager they aren't town. So, for an Enchantress to exist they'd either have to be town or at least a different alignment from the Renegade. And since this game was advertised as only having a single mafia entity? That means that either a) an Enchantress doesn't exist (highly likely), or b) something aside from an Enchantress, like a Rolestopper (as has been mentioned multiple times), hit A50. (less likely BUT answers why nobody could target A50).

I have reason to highly doubt Renegade exists. That’s all I’ll say.

[Amrun]

Little miffed nobody here answered me if it makes sense for town to get both a Cop-like enabler and a Doctor enabler on the same side. That's almost Beloved Princess levels of swing without actually breaking the Boon Rules.

Hence why AF is still in my scum pool.

[Amrun]

Mod: Do desperate slots lose their ability to act with the juvenile delinquent dead if their original role wasn't cop like?

Nancy, I'm going to try to explain those crumbs in 20 minutes.

Desperate is a modifier, the abilities get disabled.

@Chara, @Chk, @Haggle

Boon said it right there, so Titus and I are right and chk and Chara are wrong.

This is the opposite of what boon was saying. Chara is right.

[davesaz]

My interpretation of what Boon said is that the (role) abilities are what gets disabled.
Modifiers are not affected and desperate is a modifier.

[Haggle]

I have no reason to believe in the boogeyman existing.

I know there's a Renegade. That much is proven. From what they gave Titus I'd wager they aren't town. So, for an Enchantress to exist they'd either have to be town or at least a different alignment from the Renegade. And since this game was advertised as only having a single mafia entity? That means that either a) an Enchantress doesn't exist (highly likely), or b) something aside from an Enchantress, like a Rolestopper (as has been mentioned multiple times), hit A50. (less likely BUT answers why nobody could target A50).

I have reason to highly doubt Renegade exists. That’s all I’ll say.

What's your read of Titus?

BP

[Creature]

RCE, no joke. You didn't notice anything weird about the vote count?

Mars, I'm talking about Ejet and Frost.

It also says “cop like” not just cop so any modifier can fit that if it can function as an investigative. Scum just happened to pick the most optimal NK.

i interpreted Boon's answer to mean that it's only coplike abilities that are affected. a Desperate neighbourizer should be fine.

that said, Almost and Titus are claiming plainly different versions of Desperate.

There is a post by Boon that says desperate is affected. I’ve quoted it several times but I will ask again. just in case to be sure.

@Boon, are desperate, loyal, disloyal modifiers considered to be “cop-like”? Yes or no? Creature said he thinks his tracker ability still works but it didn’t on A50 last night.

I used cop on A50 actually

[Creature]

wtf is an enchantress?

[RCEnigma]

What does nips have to do with enchantress?

If A50 was targeted and based on Creature’s roleblock claim, everything. It didn’t really make any sense to me that Nips would be the target but Creature targeted A50 and was blocked, so enchantress had to be on one of them and A50 makes a helluva lot more sense then Creature. Prior to knowing that, Titus’ theory made no sense.

What's the direct connection to nips? Is there a claimed action I'm missing or something?

50 targeted Nips and was recharged. So either Nips is town or A50 was blocked.

BP

One of Creature/A50 had to be for his reults to fail and Creature didn’t claim anything before D2 but A50 did D1, so it obviously makes way more sense that he was the one targeted not Creature, which would mean Titus’ actions would have also failed, at the very least. Renegade doesn’t have to exist because any “coplike” actions - which could include any actions involving a desperate modifier, so enchantress absolutely could exist. Renegade doesn’t have to exist because of desperate and cop -

LIKE

abilities permanently nullified. so renegade isn’t proven or necessary because of desperate, so chk is wrong about that and Titus, likely right.

@BP if you give me shit for something when you haven’t read all the posts where I’ve explained things multiple tiles, don’t expect me to answer you.

Two slots being given modifiers they didn't start the game with and weren't included in their original role pm indicates a renegade exists. Nancy you were in LNT, you've seen the role before with Profii. It's a lot more concrete than Enchantress when you consider it could have been a rolestopper on A50. Or a town!roleblocker on creature random blocking. Like there are a lot of different ways it can go and it's not really getting us anywhere speculating on it until we get a better understanding of the setup as a whole.

I will say you are correct that renegade and Enchantress can exist together and possibly a 3rd boonbank role with the former 2 taking variant slots.

[chkflip]

Titus, I've voted for fewer people and fewer times than you. So for you to say I'm willing to lynch anyone is a laughable misrepresentation of what has actually transpired in this game. Especially considering I've spent today locked on all of two people.

"He'S a MaNiAc!"

Garbage.

Chara, you made me smile. In a game filled with rage and hate I just wanted to say I appreciate you.

dave, no. Plz no. Nips is non-mechanically null and there are too many non-existent people in this game for me to agree that Nips is the one out of the half dozen that need to be lynched. Joan, Clem, BEF... all arguably better lynches from a non-existent standpoint. And I townread one of them earlier!

You're on the wrong side of this, bud.

Mars, do you always devolve to being disrespectful when you feel like you're being misrepresented? If so, can I please get a few links for both alignments where you've acted like this?

50, what happened my dude? You get busy or something? You're kinda required here to nip this desperate/weak thing in the bud. I could just quote your last correspondence to the whole sitch but I'm feeling a little drainypoo from having to exhaustively (I'd say aggressively but I might ping dave and his wrinkles frighten me) go to work on this Enchantress nonsense.

Joan, BEF, Nips, Clem, Frost, Creature: more posty plz bb ty ily.

[Venus and Mars]

@Chara, if Dave is right about scum being informed about delinquent, than how does chk claiming miller help find delinquent?

[Titus]

wtf is an enchantress?

Roleblocked and rolestops the target much. Role description is on the first posts along with the modifiers.

[Titus]

Joan, Clem, BEF... all arguably better lynches from a non-existent standpoint.

Why?

Also, if you flip scum, I am using the rule of 3 here.

[Venus and Mars]

I don’t respond well when I feel unfairly attacked, which is how BP’s “questions” are coming across to me.

that's fair. i didn't personally read any of it as attacks, but then again i'm not the one he's talking to.
i definitely felt like replying angrily when Titus dismissed me last night when i said i was feeling burnt out with "go talk to Nips in your PT". but she did say she was drunk before i even started speaking to her, and it wasn't exactly an insult to begin with.
but what i my point is that i understand the feeling.

Well him saying things like it’s “timing” not “natural understanding” and then nonsense about my not getting my “preferred lynch”, when I was the one who started to reconsider it, is of course infuriating because anyone who is reading my posts would see how that makes 0 sense.