Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[Alisae]

Also, if it is at all possible, please update the opening post. It seems to have been last updated for night 3 or so.

I will....
eventuallly...

[MathBlade]

I abhor bus driver tbh.
It seems like a scum cop out.
Like “we couldn’t stop this with day play” or “let’s cause chaos” vs being the chaos.

I included the bus driver to prevent any follow the cop scenarios that might arise. Those cannot be protected via nightplay. Same with mason clears. We needed a guaranteed way to kill the mech clears.

Meh follow the cop couldn’t exist bc of your rules

[Titus]

I abhor bus driver tbh.
It seems like a scum cop out.
Like “we couldn’t stop this with day play” or “let’s cause chaos” vs being the chaos.

I included the bus driver to prevent any follow the cop scenarios that might arise. Those cannot be protected via nightplay. Same with mason clears. We needed a guaranteed way to kill the mech clears.

Meh follow the cop couldn’t exist bc of your rules

Follow the mason could. Follow the vanilla cop would have been a thing too.

[MathBlade]

I abhor bus driver tbh.
It seems like a scum cop out.
Like “we couldn’t stop this with day play” or “let’s cause chaos” vs being the chaos.

I included the bus driver to prevent any follow the cop scenarios that might arise. Those cannot be protected via nightplay. Same with mason clears. We needed a guaranteed way to kill the mech clears.

Meh follow the cop couldn’t exist bc of your rules

Follow the mason could. Follow the vanilla cop would have been a thing too.

Follow the mason is why masons should be banned from the setup.
Cant stop Nancy from playing.
Follow vanilla cop with a vanillizer

I mean you could but....

[Titus]

Vanillaizer was dead. Last scum confirmed as PR. Any VT result = clear.

Follow the Vanilla cop.

[MathBlade]

Vanillaizer was dead. Last scum confirmed as PR. Any VT result = clear.

Follow the Vanilla cop.

That woulda been because of your play.
There was rolestopper and vanillizer and rolecop.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I abhor bus driver tbh.
It seems like a scum cop out.
Like “we couldn’t stop this with day play” or “let’s cause chaos” vs being the chaos.

I included the bus driver to prevent any follow the cop scenarios that might arise. Those cannot be protected via nightplay. Same with mason clears. We needed a guaranteed way to kill the mech clears.

Meh follow the cop couldn’t exist bc of your rules

Follow the mason could. Follow the vanilla cop would have been a thing too.

Follow the mason is why masons should be banned from the setup.
Cant stop Nancy from playing.
Follow vanilla cop with a vanillizer

I mean you could but....

Hard disagree with both you and Alisae wrt the mason thing. It’s so extremely stressful being town stump, that unless you allow loyal neighbourizing shots or even hydras, it’s to unfair a burden to place on the town stump. I would prefer have refused to be town stump if masons were not part of the setup, Also, one of the reasons for choosing masons is to help you figure out who scum stump DIDN’T pick. I would be extremely sad. if you removed masons from the setup - as either alignment.

[Toogeloo]

I feel like my reads were pretty on point for how little I actually read. My exile was pretty dumb IMHO, but we still won. I had little to do with the win, but I'll take it none-the-less.

[Toogeloo]

Roflmfao. Let me see if I understand this.

-Koba has an actual VANILLA clear on me (despite once again picking an extremely questionable night choice).
-Koba attempted to scan REK but got me instead, and knows they got me because my name was in the result.
-REK died, so the consensus is that SCUM bussed REK and Toogeloo, and shot Toogeloo.
-Despite my clear as being a VANILLA, I must be Mafia Vanilla.
-Which means that for all of this to come together, I SHOT MYSELF last night? (Unless you believe that the Scum Bus Driver multitasked).
-To reiterate, you all believe SCUM SHOT ONE OF THEIR OWN MEMBERS IN ORDER TO KILL REK AFTER BUSSING THEM WITH ME.

There is Moon Logic, and then there is acid-tripping Moon Logic while munching shrooms and drinking Jim Jones kool-aid. This would obviously be the latter.

For posterity.

[Alisae]

It’s so extremely stressful being town stump, that unless you allow loyal neighbourizing shots or even hydras, it’s to unfair a burden to place on the town stump.

It's unfair to place that burden on someone who opted to be in that position even tho they decided to be in that position knowing that this burden would be placed on them and that its one of the many challenges they have to deal with.

Also, one of the reasons for choosing masons is to help you figure out who scum stump DIDN’T pick.

That's another reason why masons are unfair btw. If you're good at mafia you shouldn't need the help that the mason selection process provides because it provides way too much.

[Alisae]

Krazy actually argued if masons had to be used, the # of masons allowed should be reduced and the pool of who could be a mason should be wider to avoid trying to find scum because they just weren't a mason.
This change is small enough for me to not care about it and implement it anyway but it has a huge effect for gameplay that I think is good but I also think taking out the masons is better because why play if you can just follow someone around who knows more than you. What's the point if you don't get to have agency within the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Roflmfao. Let me see if I understand this.

-Koba has an actual VANILLA clear on me (despite once again picking an extremely questionable night choice).
-Koba attempted to scan REK but got me instead, and knows they got me because my name was in the result.
-REK died, so the consensus is that SCUM bussed REK and Toogeloo, and shot Toogeloo.
-Despite my clear as being a VANILLA, I must be Mafia Vanilla.
-Which means that for all of this to come together, I SHOT MYSELF last night? (Unless you believe that the Scum Bus Driver multitasked).
-To reiterate, you all believe SCUM SHOT ONE OF THEIR OWN MEMBERS IN ORDER TO KILL REK AFTER BUSSING THEM WITH ME.

There is Moon Logic, and then there is acid-tripping Moon Logic while munching shrooms and drinking Jim Jones kool-aid. This would obviously be the latter.

For posterity.

Tooges you are just the default vanilla sacrifice we offer to the Gods for good fortune in the endgame

[samantha97]

This change is small enough for me to not care about it and implement it anyway but it has a huge effect for gameplay that I think is good but I also think taking out the masons is better because why play if you can just follow someone around who knows more than you. What's the point if you don't get to have agency within the game.

informed town kind of goes against the fundament of the game regardless of power balance

masons are one of those roles where it's baffling that they are considered 'normal' to me, like cop

cop is more busted than even a lot of grand idea roles

[Nancy Drew 39]

I feel like my reads were pretty on point for how little I actually read. My exile was pretty dumb IMHO, but we still won. I had little to do with the win, but I'll take it none-the-less.

I didn’t even know you had been hammered, I wanted Sarah.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It’s so extremely stressful being town stump, that unless you allow loyal neighbourizing shots or even hydras, it’s to unfair a burden to place on the town stump.

It's unfair to place that burden on someone who opted to be in that position even tho they decided to be in that position knowing that this burden would be placed on them and that its one of the many challenges they have to deal with.

Also, one of the reasons for choosing masons is to help you figure out who scum stump DIDN’T pick.

That's another reason why masons are unfair btw. If you're good at mafia you shouldn't need the help that the mason selection process provides because it provides way too much.

Yes, I hard disagree with you, having masons was one of the main reasons I wanted to be town stump and yes without them, this game would have been even more extremely stressful than it already was. We are obviously coming at this from two completely different perspectives and I sincerely hope, masons continue to be an absolute mainstay of this format.

[Morning Tweet]

When is the versus series going to be redesigned so the stump can't have multiple masons

Yes, I hard disagree with you, having masons was one of the main reasons I wanted to be town stump and yes without them, this game would have been even more extremely stressful than it already was. We are obviously coming at this from two completely different perspectives and I sincerely hope, masons continue to be an absolute mainstay of this format.

Oh

See the problem is it sucks for town cause they just have to listen to the stump rather than play the game themselves because the stump just knows shit and you might accidentally disrupt that by outting masons

If everyone plays less and lets the stump determine more (like elims and night actions) then it's +EV but ----fun. I've never managed to stay invested enough to solve in one of these games for that very reason, except in Pooky's cause he didn't really restrict us too much

I imagine it's also a quite annoying feeling for scum to get checkmated by masons since there's a pattern where town's townreads are nonmasons and the PoE is masons + scum, at least it definitely is for me. This is more of a preferential thing though i suppose, some might like the challenge of having to kill the masons as soon as possible

There has to be a way to preserve the town stump being a leader without making it so town's objectively best play is always to follow the stump... although I'm not sure how. Of course, maybe other people disagree and actually enjoy the supreme leader aspect, but it's not my cup of tea.

Even if it gets me saved from 50 votes and like 3 separate intent to hammers in FL v. Hectic which was mildly entertaining

[Nancy Drew 39]

When is the versus series going to be redesigned so the stump can't have multiple masons

Yes, I hard disagree with you, having masons was one of the main reasons I wanted to be town stump and yes without them, this game would have been even more extremely stressful than it already was. We are obviously coming at this from two completely different perspectives and I sincerely hope, masons continue to be an absolute mainstay of this format.

Oh

See the problem is it sucks for town cause they just have to listen to the stump rather than play the game themselves because the stump just knows shit and you might accidentally disrupt that by outting masons

If everyone plays less and lets the stump determine more (like elims and night actions) then it's +EV but ----fun. I've never managed to stay invested enough to solve in one of these games for that very reason, except in Pooky's cause he didn't really restrict us too much

I imagine it's also a quite annoying feeling for scum to get checkmated by masons since there's a pattern where town's townreads are nonmasons and the PoE is masons + scum, at least it definitely is for me. This is more of a preferential thing though i suppose, some might like the challenge of having to kill the masons as soon as possible

There has to be a way to preserve the town stump being a leader without making it so town's objectively best play is always to follow the stump... although I'm not sure how. Of course, maybe other people disagree and actually enjoy the supreme leader aspect, but it's not my cup of tea.

Even if it gets me saved from 50 votes and like 3 separate intent to hammers in FL v. Hectic which was mildly entertaining

I do see your point but as town stump it’s hard not to feel that the main burden falls on you. I obviously always prefer to win but I rarely get that stressed about it as town - unless I’m literally the town stump.

I think perhaps not maybe identifying the correct alignment of the stumps would definitely change things up in an interesting way.

[Pink Ball]

Make it a scum stump vs two town stumps, no masons

[MathBlade]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ztfyt9ofaol2 ... D.txt?dl=0

Pasting this as spoilered text errored out. So here's the text file anything on discord after this scan is meh.
I will be asking Alisae to delete the chat later.

[Dunnstral]

Masons are fine, just centralize less power in the masonry.

2 masons, can go down to 1 or 0 for extra 1/2 shot powers like currently. The rest of town has a bit more power in response

[Nancy Drew 39]

Make it a scum stump vs two town stumps, no masons

That would be interesting, I’d be okay with that. Because otherwise, I’d have to have a hood, you really need someone to discuss things with, that or a hydra.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Masons are fine, just centralize less power in the masonry.

2 masons, can go down to 1 or 0 for extra 1/2 shot powers like currently. The rest of town has a bit more power in response

This is also fine. So long as town stump can have at least one other player to discuss things with plus 1 shot powers. I believe I’m the first town stump to actually do this. If I had to do it over again, knowing what I know now, a second shot would have really been nice.

[DkKoba]

have a hood but u are not guaranteed that either are town or scum :3

[DkKoba]

rather than a masonry

[Toogeloo]

Just make the Town stump a Neighborizer.