Dogs Vs. Cats Mafia | Endgame

[SirCakez]

and why is iyv town?

[unwnd]

Non-indicative behavior that seems intentional

Ivyeo is flex town because I think she's just overwhelmed

[Ivyeo]

Hey everyone o/ don't have time to post rn will finish reading soonish
BOOKMARK: Page 55

[SirCakez]

Non-indicative behavior that seems intentional

i don't know what this means

[unwnd]

When you're scum sometimes you want to play close to null as possible

He feels that way

[SirCakez]

I don't think that's true though

how is it opportunistic when you had one vote on you

Unwd posted that paragraph about me because i was relatively inactive earlier today and then you voted me, it felt really opportunistic to me. Especially since you seemed to be questioning a vote on me from Shiro earlier on?

you should reread my post then, i'm questioning why shiro thought the andante wagon was bad?

Well your vote on me is still lame and it feels like you're just following the consensus.

again, what consensus? you had one vote on you. even with unwnd's post i'd hardly call that consensus.

i'm voting you based on a gut read.

i don't think you're taking pressure well. and instead of re-evaluating, you double down on your OMGUS vote.

Like this post is pretty aggressive which I liked a lot

[Raya36]

Are you normally this challenging about people SRing your TRs Raya?

Andante has been one of the bigger topics and I strongly believe that the reasons she's being scumread for are NAI. I wouldn't call her a townread. I just think the scumreads there are opportunistic and need to be challenged.

Spoiler: catchup

I don’t like the vote on me from Andante in 19 and 21. Not sure if I am biased though because I have skimmed random pages to try to not fall to far behind and I think a wagon forms on this slot.

I like Raya for town because of 35, but someone tell me if Raya is really good at seeming natural as scum.

Ok maybe I don’t really care about Andante after all.

I went from thinking stuff like 99 was towny to now just thinking it is scummy again. So worried about Kazyan now.

Random thought, but is this multiball? I feel like it is.

Continued posting about dumb stuff from FB and Nero will be viewed as a way to avoid talking about anything real. If I recall correctly, FB did that in our last Shea game together long ago.

I like 165 from cake.

I like 188 from FB actually.

I agree with 197 from Chara but Chara is good scum so no town points for Chara unfortunately.

Hard to read opening from Pooky, I don’t really care enough atm to go reread the opening to our TM game. I’ll figure it out in ELO like Death Curse I guess.

Toadette you came after all <3 (I did have your ID spoiled during skimming). Xof can’t be scum though, we have to be pals. This does make the scenario of Toadette scum and Xof town very unlikely.

I like 317 from dwlee even though I’m less convinced 314 is scummy.

UNVOTE: xofelf

Hate these pile on votes.

VOTE: Kazyan

There’s 2 cults in this game isn’t there.

Would Pooky joke about being in a cult while actually being in a cult? The answer is obviously yes, but I’m kinda leaning town on Pooky. The problem is I’m not confident I can find Pooky scum. Alternatively, would Shea design a game where you have to publicly recruit during the day as cult? Also yes.

Farkran seems natural enough to me.

I hate 503.

577 suggests reading without posting from beeboy?

I also hate 587. Like a ton.

Dwlee we are still mindmelding after all this time, brings a smile to my face

No Norwee not you too.

Voting xof here is a mistake, I don’t think they are AI posting yet.

704 still don’t like any of Kaz’s posts.

I like 706 from Shiro.

Don’t really get why Nero is town but that’s ok.

I don’t think xof scum makes 759.

Thank you for 776, thought the same thing.

Kdowns town I think.

Anya has great posts by the way, idk if she is town but I’m really enjoying them.

Town block so far: Dwlee, Cake, xof, unwnd, kdowns, Dragons?

I was kinda skimming Raya catchup, but I like 915!

Oh hey it’s me I did it.

Nero seems fine actually.

UNVOTE: xofelf
VOTE: Kazyan

I liked this catchup

My highest tr right now is dwlee, i like the reasoning and i believe his effort is protown

I still tr kazyan, although some of his takes don't match mine, i think there's value in his approach to the game, scum wouldn't do that

I definitely agree with the tr on dwlee. Can you explain why you tr kazyan again?

btw I woke up today with a horrible hacking cough.

an allergic reaction of sorts.

I have no doubt that nefarious cat agents have been attempting to murder me in my sleep

Or maybe you're allergic to yourself

ideally the honest answer but i appreciate that honesty too.

I don't remember why .-.

This is my dumb reason for a TR of the day: This is way too honest for scum

Idea: People can find so many reasons to scumread Andante mostly because she has so many posts. Thus, more chances to say something someone dislikes, regardless of alignment.

it's so hard to scumread Kaz when they make posts like this.

i also feel like i know how they think more than most of the thread and on a day 1 like this that makes me not want to vote them.

I actually do agree with this. This post did make me hesitate a bit on my scumread but the rest of the scumminess outweighs this in my opinion.

Raya: why do you townread toadette so strongly? (obligatory: for this phase of the game)

the Kaz wagon seems to boil down to the busywork list, it just feels very easy. yes, objectively the work wasn't all that important, but it didn't take all that much effort, and when i prodded Kaz on it early on i liked the answer about simply looking for some bit of info to bite into. Nero's read on Kaz is the one i like the most, in terms of being developed.

I liked how when she entered the game she got her fluff posting out of the way then immediately got into content despite the state of the game at that point. She could have easily gotten away with just not posting content. I will admit this read is dwindling a bit with recent content but I still do appreciate the entrance.

You weren't really directing the kaz part at me but I'm gonna explain my case anyway:
Busywork of the list
503 Another example of busywork. This post was entirely inconclusive. There wasn't really a point to saying it.
625 Don't like the tone of saying the scumread on them is fair. Also don't like how they took someone's scumread on them and twisted it to be a jesterread
Also look at dwlee's case

You could say my reason to be so adamantly against Andante is that I think at worst she's limbait. That in it's essence is effecting how I am reading Andante as well

This is basically describing exactly how I feel about Andante

Another aspect of it really is the fact I'm pretty sure Beeboy is not posting because he's scum. This is something I'm not really a fan of in general. It's exactly as Pooky said where it's reaching a trust tell and it has to be stopped. I will vote Beeboy every time under this pretense and if people don't see my own interpretations then they could at least have faith that this tell is truth. The people who are skirting around the issue at this point in a confbiased perspective are just potential mates who either A) pissed at him for flaking again B) trying to not lose a partner due to dumb shit. I don't really think all partners would assume the same thing and just tell me 'oh well maybe he's just busy' but I think Norwee and Farkran's response to it was the worst. Seriously Farkran how could you possibly townread Beeboy here for like two fucking posts lol. That immediately just tripped my alarms and Norwee is again playing to the whole latching on aspect.

Part of me is worried this is an attempt at guilt tripping / scaring people into voting for beeboy for an easy miselim

So yeah to the people who hate reading

Andante wagon bad because it is cultivated by potential Beeboy partners; Andante is limbait at worst
Beeboy partners mad that Beeboy not post
Beeboy continue to not post, we should vote him

Eh, screw it, seems legit. VOTE: Beeboy

And we found our first person scared into voting

(page 50)

[Kazyan]

Impressions on Kaz really boil down to the sentiment he brings. That being there is none. My issue with Kaz can be summarized that I don't think he believes anything he's saying really, and his flippant behavior accurately depicts that. Look at his readlist in #704. Now look at where his vote at and how it's followed said read-list. Spoiler it hasn't followed it at all. Why would you scumlean Pooky in that post and then go 'oh well yup, I guess Beeboy is scum after all'. I would be considering why my scumlean is trying to drive a lim onto a no-presence slot. What are some other votes he's made so far? Pooky? That didn't last long, he moved on and voted Cakez in his #832. You'd think he'd stay with that vote and maybe grill his apparent read or I don't know, work with them? Nah, unvote Cakez I was wrong this whole time silly me don't scumread me for opportunistic behavior. There's a lot of accusations from him as well but like, it just doesn't go anywhere. I don't understand what he's gaining by making statements like

"Also, notice how quiet things are from former hyperposters (I'm particularly side-eyeing unwnd) now that I'm the center of attention."

What purpose does it serve? And again, the moment someone says 'no, that's not how it works' he immediately changes his mind. Added bonus: His stances have all been rudimentary and have mostly followed the order of town, bluntly put safe. He's playing so low to the ground his animal might as well be a mole.

On one hand, you're right about how diffident I'm being--all else being equal, you should definitely kill someone who's playing like this. I don't actually have a defense for how my actions can be distinguished from scum, tbh. On the other, I don't think I'm playing any differently than I did during Mini Normal 2187, during which I was town.

[unwnd]

I admire your honesty in that response

Could you tell how your reads have changed since your last readlist?

[Kazyan]

Gimme a minute; I'll make another list.

[xofelf]

Caught up again, some thoughts:

I really appreciate that unwnd changed avatars, cuz I realize that sometimes during my reading before my brain put unwnd shiro norwee and ivy into the same thought train without quite catching that no these are different people >.< that being said, shiro and ivy don't feel as present enough I can read them as different people like I can unwnd and norwee, may need to actually iso them.

Now that Pooky has been more serious posting, I don't like it. I can't put my finger on what I don't like, just the general feel I don't like.

Happy we got some content from Murdercat. i know he's busy with the FTC of The List rn, so I'm less concerned that he's not super here since I know that will change as soon as that ends.

I really like what Fen is doing, I really like the style of question asking like that. Especially the questions being asked. You can be in my town box.

SirCakez has been a weird back and forth for me, sometimes I really like what he does and other times I find the reasons for his posts confusing. But the general tone does seem to be genuine thought processes, not anything fabricated so this is fine.

I really like the way Flea posts. Everything gets broken up into easily readable chunks that my brain really likes. That being said, nothing about Flea's posts gives me any sort of feel about in game connection. I just really like faer as a person.

Chara posts are *very* good and I keep finding myself nodding along to them every time. Farkran too.

At this point, beeboy's lack of presence does give me TM flashbacks. I really want him to come back and prove me wrong. If only also because if it turns out yet again that his slot is scum, this has basically become a trust tell and that's bullshit.

I really don't get people's positive view of Toadette. I might just need more content to see it, but I'm real hesitant on that slot.

I do agree that some of Andante's posts have a very weird tone to them. Especially when her wagon was super big. Something about the brand of "no please, give me more votes for dumb reasons" kind of sarcasm rang hollow in a way. It wasn't defensive or anything, just.. Idk. There's a certain amount of *something* that feels funny.

I like everything Dwlee does, genuinely trying to play the game and question what people are doing. Top town read.

I've sort of forgotten that Ivy and firebringer are in this game. That might be more on me than it is on them. FB was good early, I miss him now. Ivy just feels like the sort that pops in long enough to give presence, but not long enough to actually do anything aside from keep positive vibes about her going.(there's also a slight possibility that I'm mixing her and the previously mentioned avatars up and she has actually been here in a good way and I'm a moron). Just general feel for now.

[Kazyan]

Townread

:
Nero (big solvy energy)

Townlean

:
xofelf (rambly in a way that scum do not curate)
Andante (she's indignant in that way that she seems to be as town)
SirCakez (Cakez's thoughts seem to fit together now that I've had the progression pointed out)
Firebringer (Gut read)

Null

:
Pooky
Murdercat
kdowns
Fark

I forget which one of these people are which

:
Raya
Flea the magician
Shiro
Anya
Iyveo

I'm Particularly Confused About

:
unwnd (too good at being scum to say anything is town-indicative)
flow trap (honesty, but scummy play?)
Chara (I don't want to give brownie points just for townreading me, but otherwise, ???)
Dwlee99 (responses seem very careful in a way that scum would want, but seems to actually try to solve the game)

Scumlean

:
Save The Dragons (ISO is full of softball questions that go nowhere)
NBEE (contingent on Beeboy being scum)
Brave Heart Lion (very parse posts)
Toadette (just dropped an analysis and left; that seems like a scummy move to get towncred and then let the arguments play out)

Scumread

:
Beeboy (refuses to post)

[Raya36]

I don't understand why we should ever eliminate a slot that doesn't even post. The allignment indicative information we'd get out of that flip if scum is zero to none. And if they flip town it's even worse.

If beeboy not posting as scum is a genuine scumtell then I think that's a valid enough reason. I'd always take a low info scumflip I'm feeling confident on over someone else who will give more info but I feel less confident on. Also we get a lot of info from the wagons and who was hesitant/who defended. Also the stuff Chara said too

i think Raya's scummy, we can talk about that.

okay, why?

Raya's toadette read stood out because she gave the reasoning as toadette having a contentful entrance in comparison to others. fine for earlygame, but Raya continued to question scumreads on the slot while catching and the read feels like it has more strength than is warranted.

that and the Kaz read, which i did talk to Raya about and i can see the angle there, but it does also seem to me like an easy read to make, you see busywork and call it scummy and then you can use that to direct the rest of your posting. i remember Raya quoting a post someone else made about how the pro posting/anti posting list was weird, but then Kaz did put out a readlist afterwards, and Raya interacted with the part about the busywork list being pointless and possibly lamisty but it didn't feel like she was really digging into why it was made.

i'd like to discuss both these points when she returns to the thread though. the problem may also be that Raya's stuck playing catchup whenever she has time to post.

I think I already discussed these points in my last post but let me know if I missed anything you want me to explain.

I mean logically it makes sense but I'm not sure that necessarily makes it town

i can see how my comment was read like that, but i was talking more about vibes than the comment making logical sense. like, Kaz saying what they want and having a strong, potentionally contentious position that gives a good idea of what sort of player they are and how they approach mafia, is why i townread them. it was just a random example of the style of Kaz's posting. the way they reacted to calls for making content earlygame also tracks with this. it just doesn't feel like they're trying to appease anybody even as they sort of went along with what i and others were saying.

Are there any other posts of Kaz's that stood out to you as towny? I do agree with the one you mentioned but I'm not seeing it the same way you are in their other posts

I recall some people TRing Toadette? why is that? I can't even remember any of their posts.

Answered in my above post

VOTE: Raya

she switched all the lights on at home and left for holiday hoping we wouldn't notice the house is actually empty

also Chara is right that her defence of Toadette feels like she has weights in her shoes

I wish I left for holiday

[Firebringer]

Also, I'm still waiting on firebringer to "destroy the wagon" or whatever he said.

im perpetually promising more to deliver.
but if u have questions for me. i am available for next 15minutes while my work computer does updates.

ama

Why is Andante town?

To borrow something drippinggoofball once said about me
she is so earnest town to me. Like bleeds town in away that sounds genuine in posts about what she is thinking doing. Don't think anything is fake from her.

She kind of reminds me of a younger me.

Anyways for those who have been missing me post because i know im a joy to have around and ur all just aching to read my posts. I will be giving a LONG WALL. what u say? firebringer wall. thats ridiculous.

Well i want to give a comment/reaction to everything ive been missing since ive been busy. So will get to that. I got to finish this assignment tonight but after that gonna give out a long post response to every post (won't quote just gonna use the post tag). Maybe ill have some spicy reads list by end of it. Who knows.

Wow this post sounds so meta it sounds like mastina wrote it. I am actually disgusted with myself now. Gross.

anyways cya in a few hours fellow doggossss

[unwnd]

kaz I have another question to you if you don't mind:

Let's say hypothetically that you're scum here. What do you different? What makes you town here? I was a bit shocked you just laid down and went 'yeah I don't blame you for scumreading me'. I honestly don't mind when people defend themselves because I think people fail to understand one crucial aspect of this game

The best to know you is yourself. That's true for everyone. Defending yourself is not inherently scummy and it gives perspective

[Firebringer]

One more comment before i go. Unwnd really like the new avatar. Looks good on u

[unwnd]

I appreciate that you appreciate my choices Doggo

[Firebringer]

ATTENTION DUELISTS!

MY HAIR HAS DECIDED THAT WE ELIMINATE BEEBOY!

Also this post really makes me want to vote beeboy.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

tbh I liked the blonde better

[unwnd]

You're never happy with me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

That's untrue

[Kazyan]

kaz I have another question to you if you don't mind:

Let's say hypothetically that you're scum here. What do you different? What makes you town here? I was a bit shocked you just laid down and went 'yeah I don't blame you for scumreading me'. I honestly don't mind when people defend themselves because I think people fail to understand one crucial aspect of this game

The best to know you is yourself. That's true for everyone. Defending yourself is not inherently scummy and it gives perspective

I've only had one scumgame, so I can't tell you if there's a pattern per se--but in that game, I spent the whole time arranging the town to make the following day go smoothly. Behind every miselim push, I was setting up another townie for failure. Here's an example in Newbie 2057:

Yeah, I'm really not vibing with an RVS meme-wagon being objectionable, during a period where there aren't actually enough players to hammer anyone, rather than the post contents.

This argument does not feel TvT.

This was my way of saying "I don't care which one of you gets wagoned, as long as I can start dunking on the other tomorrow". But I haven't done anything in this game that, if someone flips town, would tell me who to vote for on Day 2. I haven't been "scumhunting" in a way that gives me an excuse to tunnel tomorrow in a way that looks towny.

[unwnd]

[unwnd]

You know what Kaz? I believe you man. I don't think you should look down on yourself for the behavior I described. If townies were never scummy then mislims literally wouldn't exist. Misinterpreting someone is the biggest offender and gets honest animals killed.

Fark I'm starting to see your world and I'm sorry if it took me a minute to get there.

[Dwlee99]

Andante has been one of the bigger topics and I strongly believe that the reasons she's being scumread for are NAI. I wouldn't call her a townread. I just think the scumreads there are opportunistic and need to be challenged.

Why do you find the scumreads on Andante opportunistic and townread me?