Get rid of hammertesting?

This forum is for discussion related to the game.
User avatar
OkaPoka
OkaPoka
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
OkaPoka
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17300
Joined: March 28, 2014
Happy Scumday!

Get rid of hammertesting?

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:01 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

I think hammertesting is a pretty stupid "hidden mechanic." Obviously a 3p lylo means that if you hammertest scum, scum auto wins win they log on, but I'm talking about a 3v2 lylo or 4v3 etc in which town votes town and basically forces scum to coordinate a hammer on town before voting town unvotes. Its gamey because either scum wins or town catches a bunch of scum on a technicality, no? Although I haven't seen this "catch" actually work in a game, I think the fact that this scenario of gaming the system existing is a bad thing. Ofc with daychat being a site norm, this'll happen less but still, it's dumb that it exists.

Proposed solution: If town votes town in lylo, town autoloses.

Thoughts?
User avatar
RedFlavor
RedFlavor
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
RedFlavor
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2501
Joined: July 26, 2017

Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:40 pm

Post by RedFlavor »

Locked votes at LyLo could work?
"
Everytime RedFlavor posts, gods toss a coin.
" -chesskid3
User avatar
BNL
BNL
Micro Madness
User avatar
User avatar
BNL
Micro Madness
Micro Madness
Posts: 3338
Joined: September 15, 2015
Location: EDT+12

Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:41 pm

Post by BNL »

Disagree. This can’t gain any information, because it is offset by potentially immediately losing.

All hammertesting does is remove paranoia.
GTKAS - BNL

Busy, on indefinite V/LA. May return April 2020
User avatar
FakeGod
FakeGod
Seven-Colored Puppeteer
User avatar
User avatar
FakeGod
Seven-Colored Puppeteer
Seven-Colored Puppeteer
Posts: 9610
Joined: March 17, 2010
Location: Bad Player Jail
Contact:

Post Post #3 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:39 am

Post by FakeGod »

I think it's pretty hilarious every time it happens.
My favorite site mod is Zor Tester.
I have Brandi's autograph! I bet you're jealous.
User avatar
Alisae
Alisae
lolbalance
User avatar
User avatar
Alisae
lolbalance
lolbalance
Posts: 47090
Joined: October 31, 2016
Location: Cali~ (PST)

Post Post #4 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:03 am

Post by Alisae »

If votes are locked in lylo this solves the issue

Even then no one does this anymore.
GTKAS
| here.
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #5 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:38 am

Post by popsofctown »

Isn't votes locked in LyLo just a general good rule though? If you vote someone and you're town voting town, you are locked in, scum get to win a game they earned a win on whether or not you see one of the two vote contrary to a fake townread they made in the past and check the thread before the other scum checks the thread.
If you vote someone and you're town voting scum, your vote is locked. But, why would you want to change your vote? You're town voting scum in LyLo. Seems like that's reeeeeally where ought to want your vote anyway. So the rule does no damage.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
FakeGod
FakeGod
Seven-Colored Puppeteer
User avatar
User avatar
FakeGod
Seven-Colored Puppeteer
Seven-Colored Puppeteer
Posts: 9610
Joined: March 17, 2010
Location: Bad Player Jail
Contact:

Post Post #6 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:46 am

Post by FakeGod »

tru
My favorite site mod is Zor Tester.
I have Brandi's autograph! I bet you're jealous.
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 80249
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #7 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:24 am

Post by Titus »

It works well on other sites. I may implement it if no player has any prods in lylo.
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
User avatar
mastina
mastina
She/Her
False Prophet
User avatar
User avatar
mastina
She/Her
False Prophet
False Prophet
Posts: 16670
Joined: October 7, 2016
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Contact:

Post Post #8 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:19 pm

Post by mastina »

Hammertesting isn't a thing in 98% of games on site.
Literally only a very very very select subset of players consider it and frankly, those players are just dumb.
It isn't a thing worth bothering to deal with.
Not Known 15
Not Known 15
Mafia Scum
Not Known 15
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3744
Joined: September 15, 2017

Post Post #9 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:44 pm

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 5, popsofctown wrote:Isn't votes locked in LyLo just a general good rule though? If you vote someone and you're town voting town, you are locked in, scum get to win a game they earned a win on whether or not you see one of the two vote contrary to a fake townread they made in the past and check the thread before the other scum checks the thread.
If you vote someone and you're town voting scum, your vote is locked. But, why would you want to change your vote? You're town voting scum in LyLo. Seems like that's reeeeeally where ought to want your vote anyway. So the rule does no damage.
Well, with locked votes town voting town does not equate a win for scum automatically - only if scum don't have a bus vote locked in already.

But the problem is that it also makes clear when you are in LYLO - and when you are NOT in LYLO.
User avatar
BNL
BNL
Micro Madness
User avatar
User avatar
BNL
Micro Madness
Micro Madness
Posts: 3338
Joined: September 15, 2015
Location: EDT+12

Post Post #10 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:42 pm

Post by BNL »

In post 5, popsofctown wrote:Isn't votes locked in LyLo just a general good rule though? If you vote someone and you're town voting town, you are locked in, scum get to win a game they earned a win on whether or not you see one of the two vote contrary to a fake townread they made in the past and check the thread before the other scum checks the thread.
If you vote someone and you're town voting scum, your vote is locked. But, why would you want to change your vote? You're town voting scum in LyLo. Seems like that's reeeeeally where ought to want your vote anyway. So the rule does no damage.
Suppose you vote someone who is confirmed scum to you, but situations in the game happens such that someone is confirmed scum to everybody.

This is why automatic hammer >>>>>>>>>>> locked LyLo votes
GTKAS - BNL

Busy, on indefinite V/LA. May return April 2020
User avatar
Cheery Dog
Cheery Dog
Kayak
User avatar
User avatar
Cheery Dog
Kayak
Kayak
Posts: 8035
Joined: June 30, 2012
Location: OMG BALL!

Post Post #11 (ISO) » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:57 am

Post by Cheery Dog »

This is part of how scum need to deal with lylo, part of the game.
Doesn't even mean anything when town can vote after town and scum can fake do it themselves.
Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.
User avatar
Persivul
Persivul
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Persivul
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 10042
Joined: May 4, 2015

Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:17 am

Post by Persivul »

It's part of the game. It's particularly interesting when scum don't have daytalk. Last time I was in this situation (as scum) we had arranged code words, but in like the minute between votes, townie came on and unvoted. I thought for sure we were cooked, but townie wasn't really testing and we convinced him to revote. It was pretty tense.

You could argue that a particular townie can blow the game for everyone by voting frivolously in lylo, but OTOH, those players are usually known, and town shouldn't let them get to lylo in the first place.
User avatar
callforjudgement
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
User avatar
User avatar
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
Microprocessor
Posts: 3972
Joined: September 1, 2011

Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:47 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Locking votes in LyLo can lead to a disaster if town end up agreeing on the scumteam but split on which scum to vote for. (Imagine going into 3:2 lylo with two separate 1v1s, for example.)
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
User avatar
Creature
Creature
Solve This Game
User avatar
User avatar
Creature
Solve This Game
Solve This Game
Posts: 46072
Joined: January 26, 2016
Location: Lands of Fire

Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:56 am

Post by Creature »

I don't care too much about this and mods choose themselves whether they want locked votes in LyLo/MyLo or not.
Sigh
User avatar
Creature
Creature
Solve This Game
User avatar
User avatar
Creature
Solve This Game
Solve This Game
Posts: 46072
Joined: January 26, 2016
Location: Lands of Fire

Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:57 am

Post by Creature »

In post 0, OkaPoka wrote:Proposed solution: If town votes town in lylo, town autoloses.
I care more about this though, not because of the possibility of a failed quickhammer, but because sometimes scum doesn't straight end the game, town unvotes and then the game keeps dragging even though the game is pretty much lost for town unless town decides to go crazy.
Sigh
User avatar
Irrelephant11
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6276
Joined: April 9, 2018
Pronoun: He
Location: My dog's eyes

Post Post #16 (ISO) » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:32 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I'm a townie in 5-way lylo with a fmpov-inno that nobody else (except the inno themselves) believes.
The other townie and one of the scum crossvote.
The townie I have an inno on is online w/ me, so I quickly give him the chance to hammer on both members of the crossvote, which he proves he will not do.
Now the inno is for everybody, yay!

I'm a scum in 5-way lylo and part of a 1v1 crossvote. I fake a fmpov-inno on my partner than nobody else is sure of, but I'm able to convince a townie to hammertest my partner.
They do so. We win. yay!

Why eliminate these plays from possibility?
Hey all! Excited and nervous to play my first game with you!
User avatar
Zachrulez
Zachrulez
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Zachrulez
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8550
Joined: December 5, 2008
Location: Minnesota

Post Post #17 (ISO) » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

In post 0, OkaPoka wrote:I think hammertesting is a pretty stupid "hidden mechanic." Obviously a 3p lylo means that if you hammertest scum, scum auto wins win they log on, but I'm talking about a 3v2 lylo or 4v3 etc in which town votes town and basically forces scum to coordinate a hammer on town before voting town unvotes. Its gamey because either scum wins or town catches a bunch of scum on a technicality, no? Although I haven't seen this "catch" actually work in a game, I think the fact that this scenario of gaming the system existing is a bad thing. Ofc with daychat being a site norm, this'll happen less but still, it's dumb that it exists.

Proposed solution: If town votes town in lylo, town autoloses.

Thoughts?
Um no? That's dumb.

It's up to the scum to coordinate a quick hammer. You need to be careful up until the moment you actually have the power to hammer.
User avatar
popsofctown
popsofctown
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
popsofctown
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12356
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #18 (ISO) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:10 pm

Post by popsofctown »

After reading more of the input, I favor the more heavy-handed, "the mod automates the scum's game winning hammer" option.

Site activity shouldn't be a game mechanic.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
funkybike1
funkybike1
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
funkybike1
Goon
Goon
Posts: 468
Joined: September 19, 2011

Post Post #19 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:26 am

Post by funkybike1 »

Activity is part of the game, and for a good reason. We want to reward active play instead of lurking.
I've quit the site. Don't PM me; I won't respond.
Post Reply

Return to “Mafia Discussion”