Anonymous Mafia

[Tchill13]

Completely anonymous games:

randomly generated names for the game itself. Anonymous sign ups (obviously your namesake is attached to the sign, just in a way the general public, other players in particular, can't see it.)

After the games your name and slot is revealed.

removes Meta from the game. There is more accountability due to the fact you cant get away with certain play styles because you're "such and such" player. Dead thread isn't anonymous obviously.

[Tchill13]

Well the idea is for all slots in all games to be anonymous. Eventually you'd get players claiming to be someone else if it were advantageous. The name claim wouldn't matter.

It specifically puts more weight on the actual game play of that game in particular. I personally feel like that's how mafia is supposed to be played. A clean slate every game.

Hypothetically if name claiming wasn't even a thing it'd be very interesting to see how a handful of these games played out compared to normal games.

[Tchill13]

And each game you'd get a "new" randomly generated name.

Such as Jack, Dave, Ashley...

Just something for other to keep up with your posting.

[Tchill13]

That'd be the idea. No discussion of who you actually are. Your namesake will be associated with your posts and game after the game is over.

Essentially I just want all foreign elements of the game of mafia to be removed. There was no intention of "meta" for a specific player when the game was created.

I don't think people realize how far meta branches in terms of what it effects game play wise.

[Tchill13]

Like essentially I'm just removing meta, but it's actually SO MUCH MORE than that when you think in terms of what meta actually effects.

[Tchill13]

well to be fair if you're playing in this que and you intend to name guess, crumb, etc...

you're not gonna play in the que. You're gonna play in other, normal ques.

This que would be for players that want to escape meta altogether.

Outright violations would be bannable but I would assume behavoirs such as "lynch all liars" (just an example of a behavior) would form rather quickly that would apply SPECIFICALLY to the ANON que. One of these behaviors might be lynching players that try to crumb or hunt for player names.

Because if you're playing in this que you're playing specifically to avoid that. It's the only distinguishable factor of the que.

[Tchill13]

Ban nameclaiming

Just give scum special abilities to use if they can guess names.

your missing the point.

the goal is to remove the idea of a namesake altogether. Which in turn removes familiarity with players. Everyone is based solely on their actions in the game they are in.

[Tchill13]

though yeah, anonymity like was town's downfall in Boon's game

very very interesting you use boon as an example. Why so?

Just to be clear im a big fan of boon in general, but i'd like to hear why he sticks out.

[Tchill13]

These kinds of inferences and slips can happen automatically and a ruleset like that would just force town slots to behave disingenuously and pretend they aren't going on.

At first maybe but i believe a few games into the que that would wear off.

This is a great point though.

Meta is a byproduct of playing the game correct? One that in a perfect world, wouldn't be a part of the game in general. The game was never created with meta in mind.

Yet, People here can't even THINK about playing the game without meta. It's a crazy idea. Impossible, some would say.

Can you think of another mechanic that's HALF as dominant as meta but was not intended in the game's creation? That was a byproduct so to speak like meta is.

[Tchill13]

though yeah, anonymity like was town's downfall in Boon's game

very very interesting you use boon as an example. Why so?

Just to be clear im a big fan of boon in general, but i'd like to hear why he sticks out.

It was the most recent anon game I remember?

Also because it was pretty clear most town were focused on hiding their identities rather than sticking their neck out for scum.

The intent is to create a space where identity isn't even a thought. Why were ppl SO concerened with hiding it? because thats the draw of boon's game specifically correct?

Well what if you provided an are where you could play as many games like this as you like? Eventually, the games would progress to where the actual game is the most important.

You also have to consider ppl would be playing these games BECAUSE they're ANON. Once a few games go by where ppl guess other ppl incorrectly, or that obviously becomes too much of a hindrance and doesn't contribute to winning. I think ppl would drop the effort in that in particular and just play.

[Tchill13]

While neat in theory you emphasized namesake. Even rewarding players for figuring that, stuff out.

I want to eliminate the idea of a "name" altogether. At least for the duration of the game. Then you can go back and see my posts because you know that game I was "Ashley" or "John". That's only revealed to the entire player list after the game though.

So while yes theoretically meta is still possible. You'd have to go through hell and high water to obtain it. Then you'd also have to guess the player correctly. If we have an infinite influx of new players then the meta game becomes entirely too difficult for what it's wroth.

[Tchill13]

"meta game" is me referring to ppl trying to meta other ppl in the anon queue.

[Tchill13]

What? Can you reword that lol.

[Tchill13]

@fonz

[Tchill13]

a mechanic punishing town in particular for meta slips is maybe the closest anyone can actually get to eliminating reducing the role of meta in dayplay

Eventually though games played in this queue would work its way to the desired destination.

Once again, behaviors such as lynch all liars would more than likely form regarding meta slip ups or meta hunting.

Because players playing in this queue would be looking for the experience it was designed to provide.

This isn't a queue you play to meta hunt in or you play and rely on your own meta.

It's specifically to get away from that stuff.

Ppl would still do it but I don't believe they'd do it to the extent you're anticipating.

[Tchill13]

Exactly. It'd be a welcome addition to the game types for a plethora of reasons.

Anything from ppl who are always night killed early to not allowing crazy gambits just because player is "so and so" or "well so and so lurks it's just what he does". Several reasons for this.

[Tchill13]

Well the beauty of it is every game is unique. Every game is its own and the only thing that will be judged that game is the play of that game.

I think that's the way it was meant to be played.

I believe you'd grow more as a player exponentially.

It'd be very enjoyable to see what practice were formed and which ones were shut down.

[Tchill13]

I didn't even know if the way I wanted to implement it wast possible.

Basically you sign up. When you sign up it's like you have a blinder over your information though.

Player 1 has signed in
Player 2 has signed in
Player 3

So on, and so forth.

Then when the game starts each player is given a random name. Let's say player one is "Ashley" ever time. Player 2 is "John" every time... So on and so forth.

At the end of the game the blinders are removed and you can view the game just as you're viewing this thread now. Only in POST GAME and THE DEAD THREAD will you be able to view games like that though.

Blinders are on at all times otherwise.

Now the dead thread is more of a place to congregate. It's the only area in the entire que you can actually talk about these anonymous players while you still have no clue who they are. You also "meet" who you've been playing with in the dead thread.

I'm not tech savvy so Idk if sites would support a feature like the "blinders" I'm speaking of.

[Tchill13]

some of us have very specific verbal tics that make playing anonymously nearly impossible

That's understandable but I think the pkayerbase this que would attract wouldn't be caught up in meta hunting.

Players are playing here for the anonymity. They're not going to want to ruin that. If SOME do have other ideas I'm wondering how the player base would react to them on a consistent basis. Would they insta lynch those prioritizing meta? It'd be interesting.

[Tchill13]

So what happens when it disrupts the games and ppl start to get their guesses wrong on a consistent basis?

That type of play would not be met well by others trying to escape that experience specifically.

[Tchill13]

but again, the rule is impossible to enforce adequately and requires doublethink for players to follow

are you of the mind the game is impossible to implement the way i'd like to from the start or do you believe there might be a way to fix that?

[Tchill13]

Not if the mod expressly states, that’s against the rules and they should also probably mention that in the sign up thread as well - that if you violate this rule, you may be force replaced.

If you have to have a mod rule that actively punishes claiming or things of that nature, you're probably running a flawed mechanic

It's not a mechanic though that's how the game was supposed to be played.

Meta was never an intended feature in mafia.

[Tchill13]

while i do think that outright claiming who you are goes against the spirit of an anonymous game and could probably be banned without significantly harming the game, don't you guys think that in an anonymous game pretending to be someone else is a valid strategy? that's what ellibereth did in the one anonymous game i tried to run.

That's genius given how obsessed this site is with meta. That really just goes to show to what extent the obsession is if a player thinks it's worth acting like another player for an advantage.

It becomes clearer to me that nobody can imagine a game without meta. It's so engrained here ppl act like you have to have it to win. If that's not true then they act like meta is SUCH a huge advantage there must be effort put into it.

Unfortunately from my perspective meta hurts more than it does helps on this site as a WHOLE. obviously that's why I'm trying to provide a space to get rid of it.

A whole que of normals, themes and whatever else that you can just sign up and play anonymously.

I think the game play would be MILES different after a handful of games.

I genuinely believe that meta is a crutch that's holding this site back.

I'd go as far to say that eventually towns win percentage would be much higher in this que than any other que. That's another discussion altogether though.

[Tchill13]

don't think that's true? or verifiable

How so? you're telling me that when people sat down and created the game of mafia they wanted meta to play a part?

You immediately state its not verifiable because you don't have a great argument to say it's not true.

I believe mafia was supposed to be a clean slate experience every time. If you don't believe that, if you think meta was intended to be a mechanic from the start, then by all means give me some good evidence of that.

Because I believe I can point to the rest of the games features and it's proof that meta was never intended to be a thing.

These features allow you to manipulate others over and over and over again. The game itself is BORN of anonymity because YOU are the only player YOU can be sure about. The anonymity is the DRAW and BIGGEST factor of the game in the sense that you don't know anyone's roles or alignment. So why would a mechanism such as meta be implemented in the game by the creators? That goes AGAINST the direct best feature of the game. Meta is ANTI ANONYMITY. I think that right there proves it was never intended.

[Tchill13]

You tell, me that's not how burden of proof works, I provide my side of proof and you shrug? Lol.

I just thought this was the place for in depth discussions. Trust me I'd love to be proven wrong. Then I could just drop the whole thing and say it really is a part of the game.

The idea of anonymous games aren't necessarily for my sake but for an entire player base.

There's a lot of terrible practices here that are defended with meta exclusively. Meta is a license to play the game in ways that don't benefit town and get away with it on this site.

BUT, if meta was intended in the game of mafia, then I'd just have to live with that license.

[Tchill13]

Haha... That's what we're gonna do lol. As if I can have a discussion with the creators. We are not allowed to opinionate based on how the game is you know... Built and works. Especially if this opinion doesn't follow your line of thinking.

I'm only opinionating BECAUSE we can't go back and actually see. That said I do believe what I have to work wither here, the game of mafia itself, does lean in the direction of the MORE anonymity the better. Of course that's not good enough because that's not written on the scroll of truth by the creators of the game.

I'll do some research and get back to you later today though. See what I can find.

[Tchill13]

I like that and you bring up a great point.

you can say the same thing in the opposite direction.

When they created the game do you think they had one thought at all about the fact there would be similar patterns in interactions after a plethora of similar games?

Because at this point your playing another game altogether. When the player becomes self aware of their meta you're then playing the game in a way it wasn't intended to be played imo. You're manipulating how you'd respond to the game and it's events because of your history with the other players. You're actions have more so to do with things outside of the game than the game itself.

Now is that really even playing the game at all? Because the game is not your primary concern any more. Your history with the other players is. The game takes a back seat to that.

[Tchill13]

I think demand is there because look at how many alts there are

This is a great point.

I'm not sure why one would assume this would die out too soon. If anything it's a new challenge. This game would be vastly different than what players are used to.

And you'd still get credit for being good at it post game after players are revealed.

Lord knows we have to find a way to reward people's egos here lol.

[Tchill13]

I've also seen on this site far too often the more famous better players are blindly sheeped.

A huge part of the game is manipulation. They avoid that due to who they are.

I wonder how great they'd be at convincing others of stuff if they didn't have that fame with them.

[Tchill13]

Meta truly effects the game in every aspect. Literally every aspect. Which is why I'm so opposed to it. Most of the time it's taken advantage of for the wrong reasons.

The anonymous games would be incredibly fun just to watch. Way more so Tha than the normal type.

You'd get back to the basics of the game extremely quick. It'd be very beneficial to absolutely anyone that played. It'd highlight your weaknesses almost immediately.

[Tchill13]

It SEEMS like he's talking more about experience of the game rather than "meta" of oneself or a particular player.

Regardless, I appreciate you looking that up and mentioning it. Very cool.

It's a bit hypocritical for me to talk about how the game was meant to be played at creation... When I'm trying to apply that on a website in forums lol.

Regardless we have an opportunity to create a new unique experience that would be fantastic and it just isn't being done.

[Tchill13]

Big fan of the breakdown in "pointer number 2"

[Tchill13]

I believe that the fact that you DON'T know how said players or factions will react is what makes the games more fun.

[Tchill13]

i mean its only 2 games but i do believe anon helps town because it cuts down on bullshit play since you cant use meta to justify it.

[Tchill13]

its not designed to help town

anon games eliminate meta, which allows player to fake gambit and such and still be town read. which imo is detrimental to town.

anon is the way the game is supposed to be played imo. Because once you become self aware of meta its a game within a game.

[Tchill13]

Exactly. Which is a great thing imo.

[Tchill13]

in games where his meta was known how much did he get lynched for that?