Town Meta Perspective 2020

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Town Meta Perspective 2020

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:07 pm

Post by unwnd »

It's very clear to me that the town meta has changed. Raw interactions and the stimuli you receive by others responding to your posts has become the norm, while taking your time to articulate your thoughts and leave them for others to pick up on later is outdated. I think that town's motivation and perception of accountability with this in mind has become skewed. Current opinions are more favorable than old ones, so more people are less inclined to look backwards on days.
I think the cesspool also leads to unintentional lurking, burnout, and confusion, which leaves a few players not nearly enjoying the game as much.
I'm not sure if I have statistics at hand, but I think the process can be
overwhelming
, which in turn has become a tactic. Why even let scum play the game? Don't give them an inch, and the people who aren't as motivated (willing or not) can be figured out later.

Despite it seemingly being proactive, I think this is lazy and affects the quality of town games
. It feels like the concept of winning has become at no matter the cost. This in turn works great for town if they're right, but I believe that depending on the current momentum, it can easily favor scum. It's great until the feeling wears off and you're seeing more green in the graveyard. Days feel more like events of participation as hyperposting dominates all thought processes. You don't need to outplay your opponents if they're never given a chance.
People are often asserting themselves in ways that (hope to) demand respect, and it feels in some sense townies are always competing against each other to be the strongest asset.

The idea of relevancy and vying for thread control plays in part with the concept of hyperposting. This is a tired topic that is buried somewhere in this very subforum and I don't want to get much into it. I do however feel strongly about the diminishing returns.
I don't think this style is healthy for the game or the players.
Over-indulgence is simply bad for you all facets of life, so I'm not sure where it became tolerated. I think a lot of people still play Mafia (and here, as well) because it is a sense of familiarity, even with changes to the meta such as posting frequency. People are willing to undergo changes in order to maintain relevancy. I do the same thing too.

I really would like see others discuss and observe this however. I think when the game is going on you start to forget these are people you're responding to. We all want to pretend our emotions don't seep into our arguments but
it has become more common to use emotional behavior as an advantage.
I don't mean this as a mechanic either. The mods have tried to do their best efforts to not longer promote toxic behavior, but I think people are relenting and finding ways to promote it either way. What I think is a cause of all these factors is the competitiveness of the game as well. I won't get too much into it but games are played more fiercely, and it's almost like the equivalent of modern matchmaking. We're given longer deadlines yet you hardly see days ever reach them.
I believe that current town meta breeds a toxic environment for anyone who is not participating and I hope discussion can incite change.
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Post Post #9 (isolation #1) » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:10 pm

Post by unwnd »

Mastina brings up the point I was trying to get to succinctly

Everything is good when it isn't, and I think that this type of style is a flash in a pan. When it works, the feeling is euphoric

Wehn it doesn't? It's hell or high water. I don't think it's something that can be maintained, both hypothetically and literally
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Post Post #21 (isolation #2) » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:26 am

Post by unwnd »

In post 19, Alisae wrote:you know the more I think on it the more I don't see how that relates to this situation.

I feel like playing scum is miserable in this meta

I absolutely agree. Furthermore, posting a lot in succession could easily be condensed into one singular post. Hyperposting is just feedback loop over and over until someone breaks through and responds to you. That's where the effectiveness lies, but if everyone has the same agenda then the game gets really confusing and unbearable to look at. It's organized chaos and I think we're smarter than that. I don't mind single sentence posting, but you could definitely space out your thoughts more and let others do the thinking for you instead of demanding attention

That is where I determine an issue
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Post Post #33 (isolation #3) » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:45 pm

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I get that posting becomes a stream of consciousness but it shouldn't be at the behest of others

It's not like I'm gonna pop a blood vessel if someone posts like 4..times in a row

But I think what happens is that sometimes we're making posts, and we're not really thinking about them fully. Then the synapses in our brain goes off and we think "Oh shit, I better say something before I lose it!"

Then you do that and weigh the outcome of it with the playing field

That's kinda what happened to me in terms of adjusting in Xenoblade 2, I stopped filtering my posts and some of them were a stopgap between, usually longer in length
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Post Post #35 (isolation #4) » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:54 pm

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I think the filter coming off is bad though. There's a reason that you shouldn't just say whatever comes to mind. ISO'ing players and the like is that much harder because you're just wading through half-baked thoughts and conversations that no longer have a context until you look at them. I don't believe this behavior is pro-town in an efficient sense, but makes it easier to tone read people. That's why I believe reads nowadays are less about picking out someone's argument, deconstructing it, and turning it around on them, and rather trying to determine why they've made the argument in the first place.

If you don't agree with that assessment, then engage in a post-off until someone is determined the winner repeat until there's 60 pages

pedit: Promise that wasn't fully directed at you Cabd
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Post Post #48 (isolation #5) » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:28 pm

Post by unwnd »

This is my thread and this topic still ails me, so here come the statistics. Going to use sample size of the large theme games as that seems to have the most posting.

Game% Town ActivityOutcome
Epilogue!80%Town Win
Xenoblade 287%Town Win
Death Curse75%Town Win


It actually took me too long to format that nonsense, point is the percentile difference of scum activity out of 100 is absolutely staggering
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Post Post #51 (isolation #6) » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:33 pm

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In post 49, OkaPoka wrote:is 80% meaning townies made 80% of the post?
In post 50, MURDERCAT wrote:I'm not sure I understand that table, most players are town right? Wouldn't you expect it to be around 75-80%?
I calculated Posts made by town over Posts overall made in the game over 100. 80% of posts in Epilogue for example were made by town. Leaving the other measly 20% by scum.
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Post Post #52 (isolation #7) » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:36 pm

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So what can the scum do? I pose this question to myself. The thing is, I don't want to win against debuffed scum who are merely unable to keep up. I'm not sure where it became a boon to just be really active. Lurking precedent has become too strong in high-count posting games, and even with something like Death Curse, Noraa (who was scum) still eventually got limmed.

I don't think the answer is as simple as 'just post more'. It's that the weight of individual posting has lost it's effect. Scum need to get better at manipulating townies to fight one another or even twist their words, and it's something I don't really see much anymore. I think that isn't entirely scum's fault however, because people are townreading each other not exactly on what they're posting, but how often and how willing they are to engage with other townies.
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Post Post #54 (isolation #8) » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:42 pm

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Number of townies not calculated, it's their posts see two posts above you
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Post Post #57 (isolation #9) » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:59 pm

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In post 55, Ircher wrote:I think a sample size of 3 games is rather small to be making conclusions from.
I don't disagree but god was formatting/effort too much for me

This must be how scum feel in these games
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Post Post #67 (isolation #10) » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:50 pm

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I agree with both of your points Hoopla. For the first one, I don't understand that mentality either. I actually think good scum can make good town because if you develop the mindset of knowing what (you) would do as scum, then anticipating behavior from potential scum gets easier. I don't understand why people don't train this and I agree 100% that phoning it in also leads to a boring game. A lot of these wins feel less gratifying but more in the moment. Yes we won and we beat the scum but did we really learn much? Learn much about the nuances of play or with each other? Another aspect of current townplay is that it leads to these formed townblocks, but I think townblocks should be renamed to what they actually are

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Post Post #68 (isolation #11) » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:53 pm

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For hyperposting, I find myself not really having fun when I'm in that mode. It just feels like I'm putting a lot of extra in for less personal results. The constant need to interact can really just drain you, especially in my context where I'm a bit more introverted. While I might not literally be in the same room as these people, the environment in hyerposting games feels like I should almost always doing something, never giving myself time to reflect. It gets so bad that I'll often syntax and misspell words. I really really don't appreciate it but I'm stubborn and willing to change, even at the behest of my own preference. It's almost this fear really. I fear that If I don't say it now, I'll miss it and nobody will care to read it. Town games shouldn't just turn into competing who can say the most words, it's what each individual says and what we can take from it. Good paragons in my eyes are not necessarily always 4/4 leading the charge sheep me. As an extra point, I think people really get obsessive about Paragon. Like, playing how a Paragon would. You get a lot of people trying to force the gamestate instead of letting it occur naturally. Good (paragon) behavior to me is being capable of fundamentally rallying a town, recognizing town behavior, and letting town exceed as a whole just by being there on the playerlist

That's the type of player I've always tried to be and still remain to.

As an allegory: I really advocate players to play support in their head instead of thinking the town needs 10 fucking DPS roles. Even a tank, someone who is just really really town even if they're not doing anything game-changing is great. Everyone just wants to DPS
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Post Post #84 (isolation #12) » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:21 pm

Post by unwnd »

I agree with north. If I were to break down your post into simple terms your town style isn't accentuated as well with scum. I understand how you might even worry about getting burned out because you know that the things you say don't really have an end benefit to you. You're just saying them for appearance and nothing else. If you want to combat this you just have to compensate by being more manipulative with your words and then you'd have a means to justify thread activity by forcing engagements with yourself and other players. That way you're not just post post posting for no reason. Don't try to force your stream of consciousness style if you're not town, just make your opponents look worse.
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Post Post #85 (isolation #13) » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:30 pm

Post by unwnd »

I think where games suck is that the concept of playing Mafia lately is more about ensuring it's only
your
idea of how it should be played.

This makes everything more stale. Narrative-driven towngames leads to compliance and lack of variety in play-style. It also will lead to scum gaining credibility in the eyes of those who drive the narrative by simply following along, which someone already touched on already in this very thread.

Interesting tidbit: Narrative gameplay is not something that popped up just because of hyperposting. This is something deeply embedded within MS as old meta used to be way more stringent on what was good and bad play. To me, Narrative was a more ubiquitous way of the game was played back then and now Narrative has become contextual. I hardly ever see the term 'VI" thrown out anymore and advocacy of policy lims is practically non-existent.
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Post Post #110 (isolation #14) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:52 am

Post by unwnd »

Want to implement a Geriatric-esque ruleset for my Mini theme:
Each player exhausts energy by posting. A player will achieve overheat by making more than 60% of the posts after 20 Pages. Overheat is a debuff that will limit your actions both in-thread and during the night phase. Your actions in NAR will be less prioritized (including beneficiaries done to you) and you may receive a MOD VOTE if you continue posting. After 24 hours your Overheat will go down by 10%, allowing you to post again.
Thoughts?
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Post Post #118 (isolation #15) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:44 pm

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I will clarify the NAR for the setup so there isn't any confusion.
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Post Post #122 (isolation #16) » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:45 pm

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I hope so, Cabd

I hope so
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