My case for amendment of rules 2 and 3

[bugspray]

I believe that the integrity of Micro 988 was compromised due to my adherence to rules 2 and 3 because in following those rules I was forced to play against my wincon as town.

The Slime Collective made a strange misgendering post which I reported. The bolding of the misgendering to indicate strong intentionality behind the transphobic sentiments I believed were in the post made be believe that it was very likely that the slot would be force replaced.

Subject: Micro 988: 09:12 [Game Over]

Code: Select all

if (system.gettime() == 5:00:00) {
postmessage("I like Bugspray and [b]his[/b] avatar");
}

-Black

Then, over the course of D1 the slot which I townread was eliminated.

Subject: Micro 988: 09:12 [Game Over]

The Slime Collective has been yeeted. They were a

Town Vanilla Cop

.

---

Night 1

Everyone sleep tight!
The next day will begin in (expired on 2020-12-16 14:20:30).

It should be noted there was PLENTY of time on the deadline, so when The Slime Collective was banned for the misgendering it was absolutely possible that the occupant of that slot would have been able to not get fucking yeeted.

Subject: Ban/Restriction Announcements

Blatant Scum, his alt The Slime Collective, and all other alts have been banned from mafia for one week for intentionally misgendering another user. As the recent update to community guidelines makes clear, those who make mafiascum an unwelcoming place to play for a segment of our users are themselves unwelcome here.

As a reminder, do not discuss ongoing games.

After the ban was announced the two following posts were made by slots in the game in the SGB thread and due to me knowing Datisi as a person at least a bit I thought that his posting in there was at least slightly scum indicative.

l m a o

Whoa.

Subject: Micro 988: bugspray's notebook

l m a o

Whoa.

would datisi make that post if he is town in the game? i think it's nai but ythan's post must be town indsuative

I even didn't want to admit that I thought it was a scummy Datisi post and it eventually turned out he was scum.


tl;dr A slot I thought was towny was likely going to get force replaced for breaking a rule and got eliminated under 12 hours before they were banned and flipped as a tpr. I couldn't tell town not to yeet the slot because of rule 3. Two players in the game reacted to the ban in the SGB thread in the speezy and I was able to obtain information from it I believed was indicative of slots' alignment in the game (and turned out to later be true) but could not talk about it because of rule 2. I believe these rules need to somehow be modified.

[bugspray]

I'm most salty/passionate about the fact that I highly expected the force replace to happen and couldn't talk about it.

Also just mentioning an illegal read in the main thread feels so nebulous.

me: I sr datisi and tr ythan but can't say why.
jabroni: Why not?
me: Explaining the reasoning for my read would be in violation of rule 2.

Just explaining that my read is violation of site rules feels like it's also violating rule 2 because it means people know that I have a read.

why is mafia pain?

[bugspray]

Spoiler: rule 2

Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc. Using knowledge from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another.

Spoiler: rule 3

Replacements, while sometimes necessary, also serve as an outside influence. As such, do not tell other players to replace out. Do not publicly threaten to replace out of a game. If you do need to replace out, do not publicly discuss your reasons or anything else, as you are no longer a player in the game. PM your game moderator if you are considering replacing out or have concerns and believe another player should be replaced out.

are these rules 2 and 3?

Yes.
edit: added spoiler tags bcs space

[bugspray]

I asked Isis after the game if those would have been infractions and after consulting with the modteam she indicated it would have been.

[bugspray]

activity/elitells.

I don't know what these are.

[bugspray]

I would say an activity tell would be distinct from a bugtell.

Activity tell would be like if you decided it's possible to determine if someone is posting in a PT you don't have access to and you can get crude information about when they post in a PT by looking at their postcount since you last checked and how many posts they made in public mafia (pertaining to a game) threads you have read access to. Someone who diligently does this could probably notice players postcounts increasing in ways that would be indicative of scum talking in their private thread to each other, especially during night phases.

[bugspray]

let's say at regular intervals you check the post count of multiple profiles in games and write it down along with the time (or even automate this)

so now you have the Δp (delta posts) between two (or more) times of the player. You can look in public threads that the player is posting in that count towards postcount and see how many posts they are making in private threats and get a rough estimate of when and subtract the amount of public posts from the Δp you get the amount of private posts made over various intervals by the slots in your game.
The problem is people can request personal private threads.
It's not a big problem because peoples' posting habits in personal private threads are usually very different from their posting habits in factional private threads.
Even so, it's inadvisable to use this tactic because you might accidentally yeet a mason or neighbor

[bugspray]

After the game I privately pm'd isis about if predicting a force replace is against the rules and was told it is against the rule of bringing outside influences to the game. I share it with her permission.

Hi bugspray,

The existence of reports against a user is an outside influence being brought into the mafia game. This is part of Mafia rule 2 from site rules. As such, you're not allowed to discuss them as part of the mafia game. Therefore, you did play to your win condition to the greatest extent the rules allow. Thank you for asking.

[bugspray]

I always assumed that bringing up a players' activity outside of threads related to the game were against the rules, so I can just say "x is scum because elitell" and then it's okay as long as I don't bring up the specific data that I drew the conclusion from?

[bugspray]

I am legitimately surprised that you weren’t and am still not more than like 90% confident that you’re not still joking

There should be no reason for you to believe that a listmod is joking about something like that in a serious thread about discussing site rules. Did you read the OP? I cited my sources, this isn't some crappy speezy thread.