Mafia Normal Project: Role + Modifer Mod/Player FAQ

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Post Post #14 (isolation #0) » Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:08 pm

Post by implosion »

This is a good thread; I will say that there are many situations in normal games that aren't really possible to resolve without some amount of ambiguity/having to just pick an interpretation. Some answers in no particular order:
In post 6, Cook wrote:activated loyal neighbor

how does it work
There are certain semantic rules around how some modifiers can be applied that aren't explicitly stated anywhere, but they follow sort of "obvious" english syntax rules.

"activated" here is being applied to "neighbor", but the "activated" modifier can only be applied to passives that it makes sense to activate. Neighbor does not, because "activating" a neighbor modifier doesn't make sense; the only thing it could mean is to add or revoke access to the neighbor topic, but the status of "neighbor" applies during the day and night phases, not during action resolution as other activated roles (like bulleptoof or ascetic) do. So it doesn't make sense, the only roles you can apply "activated" to are those that have some role within action resolution. *technically* neighbor does have a role during action resolution (for e.g. PT cops) but I think I'd rule this as not allowed.

"loyal" similarly has semantics: it can only be applied to roles that target a player. Ergo, a loyal activated bulletproof is not a legal role, because activated bulletproof is not a role that can target a player.

I'm not certain on neighborizer; I believe they don't start with access to a PT and that it's created upon successful neighborization, because it's an active role and not a passive one. But another NRG member might disagree with me here.
OkaPoka wrote:is a backup joat legal
"Backup Jack of All Trades" is not a legal role, because "Jack of all trades" is not a legal role and "backup" has the semantics that described. "Backup Jack of All Trades (Tracker, Watcher)" is definitely a legal role, but I believe it would only activate when a Jack of all Trades (Tracker, Watcher) dies, rather than any JoAT at all. So basically what Ircher said. While I'm on the subject, note the difference between a loyal backup doctor (if any doctor dies, they become a loyal doctor) and a backup loyal doctor (if any loyal doctor dies, they become a loyal doctor. This would include e.g. a loyal 1-shot doctor). You can think of there as being hidden parentheses, e.g. loyal (backup doctor) vs backup (loyal doctor).

The standard for UB in setups where it's possible for multiple players to die simultaneously is currently that the setup designer specifies an order for those roles to be inherited. It's not perfect.
User avatar
implosion
implosion
he/him
Polymath
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User avatar
implosion
he/him
Polymath
Polymath
Posts: 14605
Joined: September 9, 2010
Pronoun: he/him
Location: zoraster's wine cellar

Post Post #16 (isolation #1) » Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:57 pm

Post by implosion »

Yeah, I agree both that that’s what it would do and that it doesn’t make sense for it to be that way in normals, hence thinking it’s not a valid normal role.

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