Draft of Normal Guidelines/Rules Changes

[Mr. Flay]

I don't hate non-functional Post Restrictions, but I won't fight for them either. I think xvart is overstating the case against them, though. There certainly are better and worse ways to execute them...

I don't like Innocent Child for Normals. Governors... eh, it's just a bad role, but it's been around a long time. Like somebody said, the real usefulness is stopping lynches, which is only useful in endgame LyLo, and only questionably then.

Traitor definitely needs standardization before we roll this out.

[Mr. Flay]

can you give an example of a post restriction you feel would still be okay in a normal, flay? I just don't see it.

mykonian's works. "You must use every letter of the alphabet in every post". "You must use at least one, but no more than three, smilies per post." "You must mention some other player in the game (living or dead) by name in every post." "You may not use any word that stands for a color."

Lightly done, Post Restrictions can add color (sorry) to otherwise straightforward roles, and are best used on non-VTs.

[Mr. Flay]

It's all academic, anyway.

• Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
  • Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").

[Mr. Flay]

Being told of the redirection would go a LONG way toward making redirectors Normal for me.

But this "I investigate Bob." "Your target is scum." "Lynch Bob." "Bob is Town" shit is for the birds.

[Mr. Flay]

If I didn't say that, I should have.

ConfidAnon has the right of it. Redirection is severe enough that you should know when it happens, like Roleblocking.

[Mr. Flay]

The biggest problem is I've seen Angel as both Cop and Doc (usually the other is Archangel). Except when Cop is Hunter...

This may be a situation where the mod needs to translate the role names they "would" use if those roles were in a Town vs. Werewolf game, and then it could be Normal?

[Mr. Flay]

One other thought: We should consider making a system ala the Open Game Setup thread via which new roles or role types can be included in the set of whitelisted Normal roles, so that roles that prove popular in the "one or two similar roles" category can be shifted into the whitelist. (I'd favor putting a pretty strict threshold on it, though.)

Take a cross section of mafia society. Give each the power of veto. Pick people with severely different views on normality.

We tried that with the Normal Role Survey... it would end up striking the Cop, Miller, and Neighbor, among other things.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm not saying it's a "good" role (having just been speedlynched by a Guilty from one). I'm saying the approach mention would already exclude half a dozen roles just from the 20 or so players that answered the survey. There has to be a respect for the outliers, but neither should they control the debate.

[Mr. Flay]

Ooops, forgot to reply to Tarhlindur's post about redirectors. I think they should act pretty much like Roleblockers in who gets notified, though I can see a case for always confirming the new target, even for someone like a Doctor who normally doesn't get 'results'. So basically, ConfidAnon's #54.

[Mr. Flay]

Your ideas for whitelisting makes sense. (Hopefully) more roles will be whitelisted than blacklisted, over time.

[Mr. Flay]

Does the "random element" qualifier also apply to Mods who choose an NK target(s) for scum who miss the night deadline without specifically saying No Nightkill?

I'll say yes for now; the default rule is "if you don't get a choice in, you lose it". (I'm open to being convinced here, though; I don't feel that strongly about it either way.)

If it were allowed, it would certainly need to be in the public rules.

I think either "missed action" or "randomized" are Normal enough to qualify, but the mod should specify in their rules.

Another thing that will fit in this category is how Deadline Lynches work (half of half, half of cast votes, full majority, etc).

[Mr. Flay]

I understand that role lists and flavor restrictions are desired by the majority but if we're going to standardize how deadline works, which version of the innocent child is official, exactly who receives RB messages, etcetera... then we're taking it too far.

I'm curious why you think knowing how a role might work (if it's in a game) is taking it too far? Isn't the point of the game the scumhunting, not modguessing/fakeclaiming? EVERY time I see a game degenerate into a discussion of role mechanics, it seems to make most of the players dissatisfied that they've gotten away from actually voting/figuring out the factions for themselves.

I guess I've never viewed the basic game as being about figuring out the

roles

, but the

alignments

of those holding the roles. Mutations/Themes are obviously different beasts entirely. I'm also thinking about the origins of the game, Face-to-Face. You HAVE to know how the roles work there, because there's no PMing the mod allowed.

[Mr. Flay]

I see a trend of players say this is not 'normal' unless the player(s) are told there is a possibility of it happening which is giving me the impression that things like non-sane cops, doc flavors, ineffective vigs are still considered normal but should be excluded from closed games but can be used in open and semi-open and still be considered normal.

Or have I misunderstood something?

That's my basic read on what mith's saying, too.