Newb Question... Input Please!

[petroleumjelly]

Granted I have not played a game of Mafia yet (though I am signed up!), but I was wondering about strategies for a Newb game, where it begins with day.

Seeing as there is absolutely no information for anybody to work of off on Day 1, it would seem against one's best interest to know whether or not you are Scum. If you know you are scum, it is easy to slip up while defending yourself or your partner in crime, or become too eager to lynch an innocent. If you are a Doc/Cop, you may inadvertantly open yourself up as a target.

Essentially my question is this:

Isn't it advantageous simply to NOT look at what role you are until Night One begins in a Newb game (and thus assume you are a vanilla townie)?

There only seems like one or two drawbacks to me, but many advantages.

Ads
1 - If you are scum, you will be playing like a townie and should have absolutely no scummy behavior to be criticized since you cannot make a Freudian slip.
2 - If you are a Doc, you should not be drawing attention to yourself anyhow; playing like a townie makes you less of a Night 1 kill.
3 - If you are a Cop, same reasons as #2.
4 - If you are a vanilla townie, then you're already playing just as you should be.

Dis-Ads
1 - If you are scum, you may be responsible for your own partner's lynching (although this could help you in the long run, although it would be a very dangerous gambit).
2 - If you are scum, your playing style could drastically change after Night One, after you have confirmed your scumminess (although you could easily attribute this to role-claiming a Cop/Doc, depending on hints dropped by other players).

Any thoughts?

[petroleumjelly]

Thanks for the comments; I certainly would not like to play without knowing what my role was, but the idea of simply remaining uninformed was intriguing to me as a Scum strategy.

I was actually hoping to get reasons for dissuasion, and that's exactly what I got; my initial reaction (ala Meme's reaction) was that to do such a thing was contrary to the point of Mafia... but I still could not help the temptation, so I thought I had best ask before practicing such a tactic. Thanks again!

Edit: But in response to Fritzler, I could (if I were to seriously pursue this tactic) simply add an addendum.

It may look something like this:

"I will not look at my role, and thus assume I am a vanilla townie,

on the condition

that there are no Cop claims or Doc claims. Also, after a Day 1 lynching, I would look at my role

regardless

, so a claim is still not out of the question on Day 2, and I can still protect, investigate, or PM my Scum partner for actions on Night 1."

Double Edit: Ugh, sorry. In response to Meme's point that not claiming if I (or whoever chose to try this tactic) were bandwagoned, I could simply add something like:

"I will not look at my role, and thus assume I am a vanilla townie,

on the condition

that there are no Cop claims or Doc claims. If I am bandwagoned, I

will

check my role and claim townie (or Doc/Cop if it seems more advantageous) if I am either townie or Scum, or claim Doc/Cop if that is my role and I do not believe that a simple Townie claim will put me in the clear. Also, after a Day 1 lynching, I would look at my role

regardless

, so a claim is still not out of the question on Day 2, and I can still protect, investigate, or PM my Scum partner for actions on Night 1".

Hope I'm not coming across as argumentative, just trying to see if there is any way to justify such actions.

[petroleumjelly]

In response to Fritzler (again, I am really not trying to be argumentative, just trying to clarify things, I really appreciate this conversation):

By any token, I would under no circumstance tell the other players I had not looked at my role; if I were to do so, it would probably be taken as an immensely scummy-sounding thing to say, and I would probably be bandwagoned which would force me to look at my role. Also, if my style were to change after Night 1 (which would only happen if I were Scum, Doc, or Cop) I would attribute it to:

a.) If Doc/Cop, not wanting to make myself a big target
b.) If Scum (and if changing style is pointed out) I would either try to dismiss such a claim and say I'm just a simple Townie, or I would just role-claim Doc/Cop, whichever the situation calls for.

In response to PolarBoy:

Yes, you may call me PJ (though I have found people like calling me Jelly, ha). Also, I was certainly not trying to advocate starting Newb games with Night, though I can see how you could extrapolate my tactic and its possible advantages to such a conclusion.

As I understand it, a Newb game is supposed to give Newbs (like me) a chance at playing Mafia by being thrown into an informationless lynching and being forced to accuse, vote, defend, and keep up with discussion rather than having the chance of being Nightkilled and forced to sign up for another game and possibly wait a couple more weeks to play... that could definitely discourage potential recruits!

Also, if Newb games were to start with night, there would have to be 8 players... and since only 1-2 players are usually IC (Inexperience Challenged?) per game, they will likely be Nightkilled for their experience, which would take away learning potential for the remaining players. Further, if there are 8 players, I would think it necessary to only allow Scum to do night actions, since allowing a Doc to protect could leave the Scum at a 6-2 disadvantage with probably a confirmed innocent (the protected) and a confirmed (if they choose to do so) Doc, or alternately, allowing a Cop an extra night of investigation would weigh heavily in favor of the town. Further, if Scum manage to kill a Doc/Cop night one, that takes away from potential role claims and leaves the town with one less strong role than the moderator intended.

On another note, I am supposed to be writing an essay right now, and unfortunately, the subject is not Mafia. I will continue to check up on this thread though, I hadn't considered all the possibilities that my question entailed.

[petroleumjelly]

Say, lots of feedback now. First off, thank all of you for the warm welcome (though I will likely not be able to sit for the remainder of the day from the paddling) and encouragement, hope I don't disappoint come time for my first game! And to take up Mr. Flay, I have read a good number of games now, but I agree and will look for strategies in the general discussion forum as well.

So lets see... I agree that in any game other than a Newb game it would probably not be the best tactic to not look at your role PM, even if there are no night actions. I just read this one the other day, but in the "Mute Monk Mafia" (or whatever it was called) some players had "activation" words they could use during the day, the players tried to communicate with each other through "code" words, and there was a chance of being modkilled if you said something wrong because you had not read your PM. In other games, you may have an ability (such as being able to stop a lynch [though this was only done through a clever role claim, it would seem] or having one extra anonymous vote in a lynch - both presented in the Les Mis Mafia) that can be used during the day through PM'ing the mod, and of course, the reasons presented by the comments above and others (knowing other masons, knowing other Scum, knowing if you're a 'bodyguard' to someone, if you 'know offhand' who the Mafia are [don't remember where that one was], etc.)

In that light, the

only

types of games that I would (unless you like taking risks) advocate not looking at your role is a Newb game, precisely because it begins with day, and the fact that there are no Masons or special abilities that can be triggered or used during a Mafia "day" or "twilight". Yes, there is a possibility in stringing up your Scum partner, but that should give you a reasonable argument of being in the clear (unless a Cop has investigated you)... further, it is not detrimental to the town on the first day to play like a Townie if you are Cop/Doc; rather a townie be killed (or attempted to be killed) Night 1 then you in that scenario, I would say (though I can see the argument that you may want to be protected Night 1 if you are the Cop).

And in response to Seol, I don't believe it would ever be good strategy to actually tell anybody that you have not read your PM... if I were to attack a fellow Mason or Scum, and got a PM saying "WTF are you doing?!", I would simply reply that I wanted to distance myself from them (though granted that could easily backfire if I got a fellow Mason lynched, since I would undoubtedly be seen as scum come the next morning!).

To re-address Mr. Flay, I thought I read somewhere that you had to play 5 games before signing up for a Mini/Theme/New York game? I'm guessing this isn't strictly enforced now even if I did read it somewhere, but I still think I had best finish at least one Newb game before I try for bigger and better things.

And (hmm, starting to get long here) I feel kinda squishy inside now that I've gotten replies from so many players I recognize from games I've read... and the fact that Brian has apparantly stalked me to get in my Newb game. You better not try and get me lynched the first day!

I was going to say something else as well but it seems to have sprouted legs and walked away.