Can we have rule on "political slur"?

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Realeo
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:55 am

We reject the use of sexist, racist, or autistic slur.

But how about political slur?
Hey Realeo! Can't you just use common sense? Is it hate speech? If hate speech, then no?


Here's the problem. Unlike sexist, racist, or autistic slur, our common sense does not overlap in politic.

Let me gives me an example.

People in America and Europe considers Hitler is taboo. Well, not for Asia. We don't consider Hitler as "radical hate speech". Some people has no problem using swastika. Most people when seeing other uses swastika may go "Ooooh.. Bold choice," but done.

I personally find saying "You realize that your argumentation for A is scum, is like the argumentation that Hitler used," is acceptable as long as the comment creator believes that his argument indeed similiar to the argument that Hitler used. So it's not ad hom attack. It's attacking the argument. When I say your argument is like Hitler', it's an implicit way of saying 'Dude. You are going to a fallacy that Hitler went. I don't want to explain what is exactly the fallacy that Hitler went, but I hope that you get the message'.

Spoiler: A little bit of explanation of Hitler
As an explanation, Asia feels disconnected with Hitler is like American feels disconnected with soccer. We Asian simply don't know Hitler (Because it was not Hitler who invaded Asia, it was the Japanese.) You people, assuming too invested with American football, may not know soccer.


Mafiascum.net is a global online community. Can we have an explicit rule for this? I can guarantee that it is not that obvious for us foreigner.
Last edited by Realeo on Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

Realeo
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:57 am

If saying "Your argument is like Hitler," sounds weird, try replacing Hitler with Donald Trump or Dusterte or Robert Mugabe. It may make more senses.

And it may makes more senses why American find it offensive, but not us foreigner.
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

-Grey-
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:15 am

You lashed out with intent to insult using content that was not related to the game in any way.

It doesn't matter what the content was.

It matters what it wasn't.

Hence my complaint that it was ogi.

OGI = outside game influence
Last edited by -Grey- on Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch

Realeo
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:18 am

The idea of outside game influence is like trust tell, not political news.
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

Realeo
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:19 am

If everything that is outside the game is outside the game, then using Youtube video or meme would be an OGI.
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

-Grey-
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:19 am

Calling me an idiot for having shit reads, I find acceptable personally.

Making inferences about my intellect based on things that have no relevance whatsoever to the game is not.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch

Realeo
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:20 am

Regardless of the actual case of me v -Grey- works, my case stands. Can we have a rule to make it obvious?
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

Realeo
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:21 am

In post 5, -Grey- wrote:Calling me an idiot for having shit reads, I find acceptable personally.

Making inferences about my intellect based on things that have no relevance whatsoever to the game is not.


You call my read a twisted narrative. I call Donald Trump.
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

-Grey-
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:22 am

In post 4, Realeo wrote:If everything that is outside the game is outside the game, then using Youtube video or meme would be an OGI.

If YouTube videos and memes are being used to degrade, it's certainly actionable.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch

Realeo
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:31 am

But the problem is, we cannot agree on what is degrading due to a different culture.

For Indonesian, Donald Trump is a fine joke while maybe not for American (because it's a real issue). For American, Tiananmen Square joke maybe fine *cough* Trevor Noah *cough* while we find that very insulting.

Because we have different culture, let us settle it for once and for all.

At this point I'm kinda interchangeably using the word joke and reference.
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

-Grey-
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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:40 am

Here's a good rule of thumb: If it's not part of the game, leave it out of the game.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch

Realeo
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:03 am

So what is exactly my fault that you reported me? At this point, we becoming enemies makes more sense that a reportable fault?

The thing is that I used Trump reference quite some time (given my game sample size) and you're the first one to angry so I went, "Oh, this is a subjective call. Better makes it a rule?" But now it seems that it's a simple case of -Grey- being offended, but if you're being offended, why report it? Why not just confront me post-game?
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

Realeo
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:10 am

At this point, I am not making violation. You're just issuing a restraining order.
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

Realeo
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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:51 am

I am going to be offline. Let me explain my confusion.

At first, I thought my action is inherently bad. However, learning from debating whether abortion is legal, I realized that I should define "what is inherently bad?"

The problem is we have a different meaning of what is "inherently bad" so we have to play by the house's rule which is why I make this thread.

However, from you implied OOG is ok as long as it's not offending. However, in you're moving the goal and say anything that is OOG is bad.

With that goal moving, it becomes obvious that this is not a problem of an ambiguous justice system, it's a problem of retaliation.

But we're consenting adult. If you want retaliation, you can confront me post-game. I thought confronting the guy that annoys you is a universal knowledge.
De Mol failed. Genius Game anyone?

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?

-Grey-
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:02 pm

Or, I can just avoid you.

Seems a better option.

Bye.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch

T S O
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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:55 pm

I think the vast majority of players won't mind you saying what you said, Realeo.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:00 pm

good fucking lord


you people make me glad i don't play anymore because you'd be left crying over my words
I am the devil, and I'm here to do the devil's business.

WWTPD? What would The Punisher Do?

kuribo
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:03 pm

In post 2, -Grey- wrote:Hence my complaint that it was ogi.

OGI = outside game influence



that is stretching the definition of OGI so thin as to make it useless

that's like saying it's outside of game influence if you say you're posting less because of having a shitty day at work
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WWTPD? What would The Punisher Do?

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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:06 pm

Also the fact that you ACTUALLY REPORTED HIM for "out of game influence" over that makes me think you're completely unreliable as a player, and reporting people in bad faith.

I personally wouldn't have a bad-faith reporter in any game that I modded. It's too much fucking headache to deal with that.

"Out of game influence"

man, get the hell out of here. And I will too because I'm actually getting more pissed the longer I stay in this shit thread.
I am the devil, and I'm here to do the devil's business.

WWTPD? What would The Punisher Do?

Papa Zito
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Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:12 pm

This is complete nonsense.
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Post Post #20  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:39 pm

I don't think political slurs are going to be banned from a game named after a political slur
dear princess celestia, sometimes it can be hard for a shy pony like me to stand up for myself, and when i first tried it, i didn't like the pony i became. but i've learned that standing up for yourself isn't the same as changing who you are. now i know how to put my hoof down without being unpleasant or mean

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Post Post #21  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:32 pm

outside of game influcence = things that may either bleed into the game from outside that can't be vetted (like out of game communication about the game) or things that bleed out of the game that can affect it (like a wager on the game, which may cause a person to play in a way that is not entirely commensurate with their wincon)

what you experienced was off topic conversation at worst, or really in this case probably just a non-sequitur, which is neither of these

In post 16, kuribo wrote:good fucking lord
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Post Post #22  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:16 am

i cant understand what this thread is about
WWTHPD?

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Post Post #23  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:41 am

Take this nonsense to PMs
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.

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Post Post #24  (ISO)  » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:37 am

In post 22, Psyche wrote:i cant understand what this thread is about

OP was being a flaming douchebag in a way that had absolutely nothing to do with the game and instead of having a modicum of decency and apologizing, decided to split hairs on how his douchebaggery was somehow OK because I *gasp* didn't use 100% accurate wording.

None of this shit changes the fact that Realeo violated the game rules. He can illustrate his stupidity in this thread for the next millennia, for all I care.
“Trust is an orchid, beautiful but delicate, requiring ideal conditions in order to thrive. Without them, it dies.” - Dahrk (Arrow, Season 4)
---
"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour
"You type like a Bond villain." - DogWatch

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