Criticism of Geriatric

[Firebringer]

You can’t criticize geriatric in their thread so do it here!

[Firebringer]

People can argue they like the idea behind geriatric but not execution.
For example I very much dislike the idea of modkilling players because they broke rules and posted too much.

Dismissing criticism as “just don’t play it” is kind of as useless as the argument “it’s the worst idea ever, don’t rver play it”

[Firebringer]

if you don't like the geriatric ruleset don't play geriatric games ok next

This is useless. Please don’t post this

[Firebringer]

I didn’t really like Aristophanes thread on this, it had more feel of explaining getriatric than actually offering ideas on improving it.
Maybe I didn’t do it well here since everyone is taking “criticism” as in just to complain.

[Firebringer]

I would play in it

[Firebringer]

Alright I have had time to give a better idea of what I was thinking so people understand what I meant by criticizing geriatric.

In theory, I like the idea of geriatric because it gives players who want a slower do it at your own paced game and I can empathize with them when they say “I can’t keep up with games” I work 8-5 M-F, and I try posting during lunch break and if a game is generating 40+ in a 24 hour period I can find it tricky to keep up. Understanding that makes me get why people want it and why it’s a needed niche of games on site.

I am not against the idea of having games being slower and condensed.
I am against the rules approach to it.

What do I mean by that?
I think a principles based idea of “let’s keep posts to a minimum to respect those trying to keep up” is better than saying “here’s how many posts you can make, anymore you make and you will be punished”

A rules based approach to how people behave when it isn’t what I think of as a major transgression (such as current banned things like outside game communication) disallows people behaving in a way that is natural. When I play games I often think of it as a conversation. I make some comments and then someone responds then I respond to that. Geriatric limits the flow and although the reserve posts tries to mitigate it, I don’t think it does so well.

If people join the game with mutual understanding of “we will try keep posting to more essentials” I think it’s far better for health of game because people aren’t just thinking “ohhh shit how many more posts can I make?” Or “fuck I need to make a rebuttal on this but I don’t have enough post reserve” the limiting of communication in that instance I think hurts the game. Will some people then take advantage of freedom of it being a principle? Probably and I think those should be kicked out after game is over from future geriatric games.

But this is from someone who rarely likes to wall post, who likes to post a lot of unrelated stuff about the game, and prefers social aspect of the game then the actual game most of the time. Maybe I dislike the rules because I think it makes mafia less about people and more about analytical dissections

[Firebringer]

Honestly fire, I'd think you'd be the first to realize that saying "pls don't spam we have people who might not be able to keep up here" isn't effective. You tried that in RFB Rematch and it failed HARDCORE.

If people preagree to keeping it to a minimum to respect others and then go back on that and spam, they should be kicked out of geriatric.

[Firebringer]

I don’t know what you mean by preferential treatment?
I don’t think newer players would be that much interested in geriatric since most new players like faster paced games

[Firebringer]

Maybe I am out of touch with newbies.
Not surprising last newbie I played was ages ago.

[Firebringer]

Geriatric kinda just shames people who join mafia games and actually want to engage and interact with others over many posts.

I've never quite understood that. There's discussion forums for engaging and interacting. Why use the mafia games for that?

This serious?

[Firebringer]

That's the problem, people have organized into a clique

The site has had cliques forever tbh.
I call them little tribes.
If you ever read politics thread you would see it pretty huge there.

Because it's A GAME, and people play games FOR FUN?

But the rule of the site is to "play to your win condition". Show me a mod ruleset that says "it doesn't matter what your role is, just go out there and have a good time".

Well besides fun, interacting with people and forming deeper connections helps to understand and get in the mind of player better. People read other players better the more they know them and banter + rapport extremely helps that out

Frankly I don’t understand why people play and don’t try to socialize in game more.

[Firebringer]

@Khan I think you are kind of thinking inside a small box of how to play mafia

Like maybe I am shoe horning things in the game that are unnecessary but I think it adds a lot of value and makes
more enjoyable from at least most who have played with me (When I am not being a total asshole)

[Firebringer]

Where is everyone getting this info on whether stuff is townsided or scumsided.

Their own preference for how to play game = what makes best for Town.
Obviously

[Firebringer]

Well the premise of the game is to try your best to find out who scum is and isn't. If you are spamming the entire game and doing absolutely nothing, you are not doing that.

And the thing about this is, it assumes someone who spam posts, only spam posts.
They don’t vote.
They don’t give any reads.
They don’t talk about game at all.

And you will be hard pressed to find any spam poster who does that.

[Firebringer]

Shorter deadlines for sure are townsided. This is, I think, consensus (I think Mafia Universe has a higher town winrate). I'm extrapolating to say that geriatric rules are also townsided because there's less interaction available for scum to manipulate mislynches and derail scum lynches.

Re: Reading: Depends on how troll the shitposters and spammers are. If they always follow town wincon while doing their thing, then yeah it's easy to read. But if they're trolling on the side or making up wincons for themselves, AND are straight up bad at playing town, this makes reading them impossible. I think Hyperactive games are gonna be a honey trap for those kinds of players. Geriatric games on the other hand won't attract any particular anti-town styles I think.

@Firebringer: It's like you didn't read my post at all.

@mathdino ur points aren’t true as ellibereth has basically summed up well.
Also ur point on “scum have less time to manipulate the town” doesn’t make sense as scum can manipulate the town in any time scale especially if their posters are the most active and leading conversation.

If there’s a 13 player game.
And the top 3 posters are scum.
The scum will always win.

I haven’t seen a game where scum completely controlled conversation and didn’t win.
And a short/longer deadline has nothing to do with that, that’s just the personalities and style of scum players
You can control the Town with whatever deadline that’s used if you have the right team

[Firebringer]

I don’t know where to begin dissecting that but we are completely off topic here

[Firebringer]

firebringer have you ever considered not being a sophist?

What’s the purpose of this post?

[Firebringer]

firebringer have you ever considered not being a sophist?

What’s the purpose of this post?

Your criticism isn't in good faith. Your arguments don't make sense below a surface level. They mostly break down to "WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" type arguments.

How is my criticism not in good faith?
I laid out my thought process pretty explicitly

And how does my arguments not make sense?
And how am I using think of children type arguments? I don’t believe I did so once.

[Firebringer]

firebringer have you ever considered not being a sophist?

What’s the purpose of this post?

Your criticism isn't in good faith. Your arguments don't make sense below a surface level. They mostly break down to "WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" type arguments.

How is my criticism not in good faith?
I laid out my thought process pretty explicitly

And how does my arguments not make sense?
And how am I using think of children type arguments? I don’t believe I did so once.

@Shea

[Firebringer]

Off topic

[Firebringer]

My post wasn’t directed at just you.

[Firebringer]

I am thinking of requesting mods to close this since it’s been very off topic