[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
mith
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:53 pm

As of March 2, 2009, the process for choosing Open Setups to run under the Open Game Queue system is undergoing some changes. The former process is quoted below reference purposes, until we have settled on a definite system.

Please continue to use this thread for posting setup ideas and discussing them.



Original thread.

The old thread wrote:We will soon have a new administrative game category, Open Games.

Rather than being Moderator designed, Open Games will be chosen by the players. The signup thread will have a small number of games forming at any given time, and when a game is full the first Mod on the waiting list will take that game, and another setup will take its place.

This thread is for discussing potential setups and nominating them for the Queue thread.

Setup Guidelines

In order to be eligible for the Open Game list, a setup must fit the Normal Game definition.

In addition, Open Games will have standardized rules and role PMs (more on this later).

When a setup is designed, it can be posted here, and a list of setups will be maintained.

Nominations

Users may nominate posted setups for inclusion in the signup list. Whenever a new setup is needed, the setup with the most nominations will be taken, and nominations for it will be dropped.

If you are posting a new setup, please nominate in a separate post.

Initially, the Vanilla setup will have a "permanent" place in the signups; when a Vanilla game is ready to run, a new Vanilla signup will take its place on the forming games list. As such, the Vanilla setup does not need to be nominated. It is possible that other setups will be given permanent places as well, in addition to or instead of the Vanilla setup.
Last edited by mith on Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

mith
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:53 pm

As discussed here...

White Flag Mafia

2 Mafia
8 Townies
Night Start

Mafia win condition: The Mafia wins if it comprises one third of the town.

Town win condition: The Town wins if the Mafia has fewer than two members.

(Town EV is 44.44...%, compared to 35.21% for the usual 2-10 vanilla.)

Xylthixlm
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:24 pm

Re-nominate Rebels in the Palace, as its nomination somehow translated into an AitP nomination on the way to the queue.
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:33 pm

Variation on something I thought up earlier; was the last post in the old thread before it was locked, so I'm sticking it back up here.

Wishing Well Mafia

(3) Mafia Goons

(1) Poisonous Water Carrier (SK)

(1) Healing Water Carrier
(1) Cop
(6) Vanilla Townies

The Mafia have one NK between them. The Cop has one investigation per night. The Townies each have one night-target per night. All Night Actions are compulsive.

The Healing Water Carrier acts as a Doctor protection to anyone who targets him/her for any reason, has no active Night Action, and is vulnerable to NKs.

The Poisonous Water Carrier can choose whether or not to activate each Night. If he/she decides to activate, anyone who targets him/her will die. This death preempts other Night Actions against him/her - so he/she is not vulnerable to NKs.

Day Start, I think.

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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:29 am

DMC9

2 Mafia

1 Death Miller Jack of All Trades (one shot each of investigate, protect, roleblock)
4 Vanilla Townies
Fight me, dumbass.

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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:44 am

Xylthixlm wrote:Re-nominate Rebels in the Palace, as its nomination somehow translated into an AitP nomination on the way to the queue.

Can you list what each separate (Rebels & Assassins) setup entails?

I know what Assassins is but I don't know what Rebels is and how it differs from assassins. I would like to see what each is before I second either.

Is Assassin's really in the queue now?
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:47 am

Rebels in the Palace
8 Rebels (win if King is lynched)
3 Guards (know who King is but not who the other Guards are, win if King + Guards >= Rebels)
1 King (doesn't know anyone, wins if King + Guards >= Rebels)

Assassins in the Palace
2 Assassins (have vengeful kill when lynched, win if King dies)
9 Guards (know who King is but not who the other Guards are, win if all Assassins are dead)
1 King (doesn't know anyone, wins if all Assassins are dead)
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:58 am

Xylthixlm wrote:Rebels in the Palace
8 Rebels (win if King is lynched)
3 Guards (know who King is but not who the other Guards are, win if King + Guards >= Rebels)
1 King (doesn't know anyone, wins if King + Guards >= Rebels)

Assassins in the Palace
2 Assassins (have vengeful kill when lynched, win if King dies)
9 Guards (know who King is but not who the other Guards are, win if all Assassins are dead)
1 King (doesn't know anyone, wins if all Assassins are dead)


I thought AiTP standard were
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9142
1 Assassin(have vengeful kill when lynched, win if King dies)
7 Guards(know who King is but not who the other Guards are, win if all Assassins are dead)
1 King (doesn't know anyone, wins if all Assassins are dead)
and
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8018
2 Assassin (have vengeful kill when lynched, win if Kings dies. Can blow up 2 people if no kings yet dead and partner is already dead)
10 guards (know who Kings are but not who the other Guards are, win if all Assassins are dead)
2 Kings (doesn't know anyone, wins if all Assassins are dead)

1) Did the standards change, or am I wrong about something being standard?
2) Both are nightless. Assassins can only talk to each other in twighlight or pregame. Correct?
3) Is Your given Assassin's Setup really in the queue now?
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:18 pm

There's no one standard for AitP; multiple variations have been tried.

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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:47 pm

I feel that now this new thread has been made a split off may be necessary. See the thread in SI for coversation on this.

2:2:8 Nightless

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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:12 pm

PokerFace wrote:1) Did the standards change, or am I wrong about something being standard?
2) Both are nightless. Assassins can only talk to each other in twighlight or pregame. Correct?
3) Is Your given Assassin's Setup really in the queue now?

1) That was from memory, so I'm not surprised if it's wrong :)
2) Don't know
3) I proposed RitP in the last thread, and it got nominated/seconded/etc., but somehow AitP got added to the open queue instead of RitP. I have no idea if that's still in the queue or if it got run.
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"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi

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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:22 pm

Xylthixlm wrote:
PokerFace wrote:1) Did the standards change, or am I wrong about something being standard?
2) Both are nightless. Assassins can only talk to each other in twighlight or pregame. Correct?
3) Is Your given Assassin's Setup really in the queue now?

1) That was from memory, so I'm not surprised if it's wrong :)
2) Don't know
3) I proposed RitP in the last thread, and it got nominated/seconded/etc., but somehow AitP got added to the open queue instead of RitP. I have no idea if that's still in the queue or if it got run.

mith wrote:There's no one standard for AitP; multiple variations have been tried.

Xylthixlm wrote:Rebels in the Palace
8 Rebels (win if King is lynched)
3 Guards (know who King is but not who the other Guards are, win if King + Guards >= Rebels)
1 King (doesn't know anyone, wins if King + Guards >= Rebels)

Ok well I don't know if its balanced but I guess testing it is one way to find that out.

Second REBELS in The Palace
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shaft.ed
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:47 pm

Plum wrote:Variation on something I thought up earlier; was the last post in the old thread before it was locked, so I'm sticking it back up here.

Wishing Well Mafia

(3) Mafia Goons

(1) Poisonous Water Carrier (SK)

(1) Healing Water Carrier
(1) Cop
(6) Vanilla Townies

The Mafia have one NK between them. The Cop has one investigation per night. The Townies each have one night-target per night. All Night Actions are compulsive.

The Healing Water Carrier acts as a Doctor protection to anyone who targets him/her for any reason, has no active Night Action, and is vulnerable to NKs.

The Poisonous Water Carrier can choose whether or not to activate each Night. If he/she decides to activate, anyone who targets him/her will die. This death preempts other Night Actions against him/her - so he/she is not vulnerable to NKs.

Day Start, I think.
So if the poisonous water carrier does not activate, they are open for NK's?

I still think this is broken for the SK via choreographed night choices. You need some disincentive for the townies not claiming their night targets in advance.

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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:50 pm

shaft.ed wrote:
Plum wrote:Variation on something I thought up earlier; was the last post in the old thread before it was locked, so I'm sticking it back up here.

Wishing Well Mafia

(3) Mafia Goons

(1) Poisonous Water Carrier (SK)

(1) Healing Water Carrier
(1) Cop
(6) Vanilla Townies

The Mafia have one NK between them. The Cop has one investigation per night. The Townies each have one night-target per night. All Night Actions are compulsive.

The Healing Water Carrier acts as a Doctor protection to anyone who targets him/her for any reason, has no active Night Action, and is vulnerable to NKs.

The Poisonous Water Carrier can choose whether or not to activate each Night. If he/she decides to activate, anyone who targets him/her will die. This death preempts other Night Actions against him/her - so he/she is not vulnerable to NKs.

Day Start, I think.
So if the poisonous water carrier does not activate, they are open for NK's?

I still think this is broken for the SK via choreographed night choices. You need some disincentive for the townies not claiming their night targets in advance.


You may be right. Hmmm.

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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:08 pm

one way to "fix" it is to have the mafia and SK kills be non-distinguishable. That way the mafia can frame a player as the SK. The only way the town can figure out the difference is to "spend" two players in one night.

I still think it'll be difficult for the SK to win. Basically his addition makes the game tip towards scum pretty handily IMO.

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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:13 pm

Just adding a note that till BA's game fills up I'm just ignoring this thread.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.

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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:21 pm

Just going to add these two the mix as both caught my attention from the last thread.

Written by Adel, with the help of shaft and Mr. Flay

2 Mafia Goons
2 Mimes (joint RB)
1 Watcher
1 Vigilante
5 Townies

..or 2 Watchers and 3 Mafiosos.


Written by Adel

Mr. and Ms. Smith
Mr. Smith (SK) (nk-immune)
Mrs. Smith (SK) (nk-immune)
1 Watcher
x townies

Daystart

x = number of townies necessary to balance setup. x = 6?

Mr. and Mrs. Smith are SKs, with the win condition "you win if you are the last player alive". If one ever targets the other, they get a qt thread to use for the rest of the period of night, and each following period of night, and their win conditions are changed to read "you win if either you or your spouse outlives the entire town"


I would say 7 or 8 townies would work for Mr. Mrs smith game.
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:49 pm

shaft.ed wrote:one way to "fix" it is to have the mafia and SK kills be non-distinguishable. That way the mafia can frame a player as the SK. The only way the town can figure out the difference is to "spend" two players in one night.

I still think it'll be difficult for the SK to win. Basically his addition makes the game tip towards scum pretty handily IMO.


I didn't intend the SK and Mafia kills to be distinguishable, but that should certainly be specified. What if I either reduced the Mafia to two goons (now it's probably unbalanced the other way) or made all three goons have to submit a night action (so between the Mafia one kill and two plain night-targets). And perhaps . . . Poison Water Carrier is just plain NK-immune? I'm not sure.

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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:03 pm

Plum wrote:
shaft.ed wrote:one way to "fix" it is to have the mafia and SK kills be non-distinguishable. That way the mafia can frame a player as the SK. The only way the town can figure out the difference is to "spend" two players in one night.

I still think it'll be difficult for the SK to win. Basically his addition makes the game tip towards scum pretty handily IMO.


I didn't intend the SK and Mafia kills to be distinguishable, but that should certainly be specified. What if I either reduced the Mafia to two goons (now it's probably unbalanced the other way) or made all three goons have to submit a night action (so between the Mafia one kill and two plain night-targets). And perhaps . . . Poison Water Carrier is just plain NK-immune? I'm not sure.
But if everyone has a target you can find the SK via circle targeting.

I think shrinking the game size may be the best idea.
2 Goons
Poison Pillar
Healing Pillar
X Townies

That way any choreographed deaths enter into WIFOM territory and can't be directly used to out the SK. Forget the Cop with so few scum. If you do want the town to have an extra power role I'd make it a tracker that way if they get a "hit" (ie player not targeting ) they can't be sure if they are the non-killing Goon, the Poison Pillar or the Healing Pillar.

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Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:16 pm

shaft.ed wrote:
Plum wrote:
shaft.ed wrote:one way to "fix" it is to have the mafia and SK kills be non-distinguishable. That way the mafia can frame a player as the SK. The only way the town can figure out the difference is to "spend" two players in one night.

I still think it'll be difficult for the SK to win. Basically his addition makes the game tip towards scum pretty handily IMO.


I didn't intend the SK and Mafia kills to be distinguishable, but that should certainly be specified. What if I either reduced the Mafia to two goons (now it's probably unbalanced the other way) or made all three goons have to submit a night action (so between the Mafia one kill and two plain night-targets). And perhaps . . . Poison Water Carrier is just plain NK-immune? I'm not sure.
But if everyone has a target you can find the SK via circle targeting.

I think shrinking the game size may be the best idea.
2 Goons
Poison Pillar
Healing Pillar
X Townies

That way any choreographed deaths enter into WIFOM territory and can't be directly used to out the SK. Forget the Cop with so few scum. If you do want the town to have an extra power role I'd make it a tracker that way if they get a "hit" (ie player not targeting ) they can't be sure if they are the non-killing Goon, the Poison Pillar or the Healing Pillar.


Interesting. I think one of my ideas with the original one was a Doc/Cop combo with a different set of issues than usual. But I actually do see other appeals to this idea, as you pointed out with the idea of throwing in a Tracker (who, again, as soon as he/she outs him/herself is reduced to either of no further use confirming things or extremely vulnerable . . .

So maybe

2 Goons

1 Poison Water Carrier

1 Healing Water Carrier
1 Tracker
X Townies - er, 6?

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Post Post #20  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:27 pm

How about 6 townies with a night start that way if there are extra dead townies the SK gets them for "free"

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Post Post #21  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:30 pm

Night Start sounds fine. So, now we have:

Wishing Well Mafia

(2) Mafia Goons

(1) Poisonous Water Carrier (SK)

(1) Healing Water Carrier
(1) Tracker
(6) Vanilla Townies

The Mafia have one NK between them. The Tracker has one investigation per night. The Townies each have one night-target per night. All Night Actions are compulsive.

The Healing Water Carrier acts as a Doctor protection to anyone who targets him/her for any reason, has no active Night Action, and is vulnerable to NKs.

The Poisonous Water Carrier can choose whether or not to activate each Night. If he/she decides to activate, anyone who targets him/her will die. He/she is also NK-immune.

All kill flavors are identical.

Night Start.

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Post Post #22  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:45 pm

Spellbound Mafia
2 Mafia Goons
1 Serial Killer
1 Cop
2 Psychoanalysts
3 Townies

If the Psychoanalysts target the mafia or the serial killer, they will die during the night.
SEND THE VECTOIDS

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Post Post #23  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:58 pm

Plum wrote:Night Start sounds fine. So, now we have:

Wishing Well Mafia

(2) Mafia Goons

(1) Poisonous Water Carrier (SK)

(1) Healing Water Carrier
(1) Tracker
(6) Vanilla Townies

The Mafia have one NK between them. The Tracker has one investigation per night. The Townies each have one night-target per night. All Night Actions are compulsive.

The Healing Water Carrier acts as a Doctor protection to anyone who targets him/her for any reason, has no active Night Action, and is vulnerable to NKs.

The Poisonous Water Carrier can choose whether or not to activate each Night. If he/she decides to activate, anyone who targets him/her will die. He/she is also NK-immune.

All kill flavors are identical.

Night Start.
I'd make the Mafia and Tracker night actions non-compulsive.

If so, Nominate

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Post Post #24  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:59 pm

Simenon wrote:Spellbound Mafia
2 Mafia Goons
1 Serial Killer
1 Cop
2 Psychoanalysts
3 Townies

If the Psychoanalysts target the mafia or the serial killer, they will die during the night.
What's a psychoanalyst again? Some kind of weak cop?

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