The I don't play anymore thread

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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:25 am

Post by SFG »

Vi wrote:It's nice to see a recurring theme in these posts, especially when I made one of them.
Maybe people will get the hint.
I think my theme is actually running directly contrary yours - I did my research, tried to do well at this game, and people still treat me like a VI instead of trying to actually help me get better. It's very frustrating being left out to dry/lynched just because you didn't spontaneously develop hax scumhunting skills and you admit that you aren't the best player around.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:28 am

Post by Vi »

SFG wrote:
Vi wrote:It's nice to see a recurring theme in these posts, especially when I made one of them.
Maybe people will get the hint.
I think my theme is actually running directly contrary yours - I did my research, tried to do well at this game, and people still treat me like a VI instead of trying to actually help me get better. It's very frustrating being left out to dry/lynched just because you didn't spontaneously develop hax scumhunting skills and you admit that you aren't the best player around.
May I have a link to an example?
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:41 am

Post by shaft.ed »

Ojanen wrote:Vetting the playerlist is essential. If enough of them are good players, it's likely you'll have fun by teaming up/mindstorming with at least a couple of them. 1 bad case of idiotism plus 2-3 milder cases of VI rarely suffices to destroy the game, a couple of VIs often help with creating initial scatterplots of reactions. Form a band of obvtown and have fun steamrolling/PoEing through the rest.
Careful with non-invitational larges (especially themes) - hardest game type to find that isn't dominated by mindless yelling/a too large percentage of VIs starting or replacing in.
Yeah I barely play anymore and the only reason I'll consider a game is a once in a lifetime player list.
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:18 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

SFG wrote: On a side note,
you guys
on this site are unforgiving and scary and that doesn't help :(
*AHEM*
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:06 am

Post by Elmo »

SFG wrote:one of those "almost-unwinnable-for-town" games and I was in overdrive the entire game trying to fight that only to watch it all fall apart the moment I got nightkilled. Now I feel like the hard work I normally put into games is pretty damn useless, completely demoralized. I probably WILL come back eventually, maybe in late December or so around my 1-year.
The Fonz wrote:every time I feel like this, I just think of one or two of the VIs I've been subjected to over the course of my time here, think 'Do I really want to put myself through this' with regard to the process of ascertaining which of the four people in an average game who appear to be trying to ruin it IS trying to ruin it, which is scum, and which ones are just so dense they don't know any better
These actually apply, I just didn't want to post this. It's just really difficult to put any significant effort in when there's a decent chance it won't affect the outcome.
SFG wrote:you guys on this site are unforgiving and scary and that doesn't help :(
This sounds like it would mostly apply to bad players. :V
Vi wrote:Maybe people will get the hint.
And do what?
Succinctness is pro-town.

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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:13 am

Post by Vi »

Elmo wrote:
Vi wrote:Maybe people will get the hint.
And do what?
wait what I just like telling people they're horrible

Well, it should curtail the current
popularity
of being viewed as a bad player.
It should also be a sign that maybe people should follow what I've been saying for a while now - learn to look Town, and learn how to scumhunt. The first step in newbies' ascension to competent players is the realization that what they think works usually
doesn't
, and the commonly-held belief that looking Town is something you only need to "turn on" when you feel you need to is frankly toxic to overall gameplay.
Once those are realized by a not-insignificant portion of the regular playerbase, maybe people will stop talking about mafiascum like it plays at cesspool-level. I know people talk like that offsite, but when
respected players onsite
are saying it there's decidedly a problem.

No
italics
tags were severely overworked in the creation of this post.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:25 am

Post by boberz »

Where can you play better mafia Vi?
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:30 am

Post by Vi »

boberz wrote:Where can you play better mafia Vi?
Don't confuse "a site that talks down about mafiascum" with "a site that plays Mafia better than mafiascum".
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:34 am

Post by boberz »

Fair enough.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:28 am

Post by ZeroFang »

Mr. Flay wrote:I flat don't believe that the site is "dumb" right now.
There's a recent influx of players (all spring/summer 2010) that are very VI-ish. I used to be a common VI myself until I grew out of it, but the difference is that I tried to improve and did. I've modified almost everything about how I played the game in order to be a better player. A lot of these newer players in my generation don't, and refuse to change. They're the type of players to vote hop, not write cases, OMGUS vote, lurk, generally be idiots, and at the end of the day wonder what the hell they did that was so scummy. There are even a couple players that advertise themselves as VIs as if they're proud of it. I believe this is the cancer on MS JDodge is talking about, and yes, it's very frustrating when you can't get a read on half the players in the game because all they've done is voted a couple times and said "LOL y u voted me".
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:41 pm

Post by SFG »

Vi wrote:
SFG wrote:I think my theme is actually running directly contrary yours - I did my research, tried to do well at this game, and people still treat me like a VI instead of trying to actually help me get better. It's very frustrating being left out to dry/lynched just because you didn't spontaneously develop hax scumhunting skills and you admit that you aren't the best player around.
May I have a link to an example?
The best example I can think of off the top of my head involves an ongoing game. I guess I'll go with an example from my second game around hereabouts where basically I was accused of being scum for every possible course of action I could take without really being told why any of them were particularly scummy. Actually this post from that game is a pretty accurate statement of how I've been feeling as well.

*waits for you to come down on my ass telling me its my fault for being a bad player or whatever*
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:11 pm

Post by Vi »

SFG wrote:*waits for you to come down on my ass telling me its my fault for being a bad player or whatever*
You are a bad player and people should reflexively disagree with anything you say just based on who's saying it. You should loudly claim that you are a horrible person here and on every other forum you are on, and should never allow yourself to procreate because your kids will be ugly.

Now that I've told you what you expected to hear, I'll start telling the truth.~ People, esp. Townies, can be passionate, willing to demonize their targets, and wrong. You have to be able to work through that and stand up for what you believe and what you say. Truthfully, I didn't actually see anything particularly inflammatory up to post 499 (with heavy skimming). So people misread you or disagree with what you're saying. They're looking for scum too. That they happen to be looking in your direction, right or wrong, is not a crime. As long as everyone's willing to apologize and make up in the end, there's no real foul and everyone tries to do better in the future.
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:30 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

SFG wrote:
Vi wrote:It's nice to see a recurring theme in these posts, especially when I made one of them.
Maybe people will get the hint.
I think my theme is actually running directly contrary yours - I did my research, tried to do well at this game, and people still treat me like a VI instead of trying to actually help me get better. It's very frustrating being left out to dry/lynched just because you didn't spontaneously develop hax scumhunting skills and you admit that you aren't the best player around.
I don't really understand how can expect someone could help you get better, especially in game (hell I'd probably try to lynch anyone who started trying to teach in game).
Vi wrote:As long as everyone's willing to apologize and make up in the end, there's no real foul and everyone tries to do better in the future.
I'm seeing faaaaaaar to many people who understand their style is scummy / bad, understand why / how it's deficent and make no change to it, instead they just talk about how it's their meta as though that solves everything.

This both confuses and annoys me.
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:35 pm

Post by Vi »

TheButtonmen wrote:
Vi wrote:As long as everyone's willing to apologize and make up in the end, there's no real foul and everyone tries to do better in the future.
I'm seeing faaaaaaar to many people who understand their style is scummy / bad, understand why / how it's deficent and make no change to it, instead they just talk about how it's their meta as though that solves everything.

This both confuses and annoys me.
This is why using Mafia as a tool of social engineering is both fun and rewarding even if you don't win as often.
Though I can pull up a game where the "The side with the fewest VIs wins" philosophy actually worked for Town.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:02 pm

Post by Friend »

Look, I dislike VIs. A whole lot. But we can't just make them "go away," and it's nigh-impossible to make them change. So I've started just trying to figure out how to read them, and if I decide they're town, they're just another bandwagon vote. If they're scum, they get lynched.

Now, you have another problem with the Fate-style CAPS RAGE PLAYERS. It works, if it's used it good hands. But sometimes, things start getting personal, and when someone is RAGING like that at you it's very hard to keep your cool, even as town. And that leads to OMGUS attacks and just a general sense of frustration about the game.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:20 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

It's safe to say I don't have a problem with the LEFT SHIFT AGGRESSION players, my issue is with players who acknowledge that they are playing in a terrible VI manner and then refuse to change their style but instead hide behind meta to defend themselves.

VI's on their own are fine, we were all newbs once (hell I still have plenty of flaws in my own style), to me the main issue is that they tend to join 4+ games then pay only the slightest attention to each rather then playing less games less fucktardedly.

Imo the VI issue won't go away until game caps are lowered.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:24 pm

Post by Friend »

TBM wrote:to me the main issue is that they tend to join 4+ games then pay only the slightest attention to each rather then playing less games less fucktardedly.
I completely agree. There's one *cough* unnamed VI I know *cough* that joined basically like 12 fucking games and then played completely shittily in each. It's becoming a sitewide problem - to the point where I really don't want to play an any newbie games anymore.
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:33 pm

Post by Looker »

They get bored and want to play right away.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:48 pm

Post by Nikanor »

I love the /in-vitationals.
I am in the bottom 10% of scumhunters onsite!
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:09 am

Post by TheButtonmen »

Nikanor wrote:I love the /in-vitationals.
I on the other hand am still bitter about them.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:27 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Friend wrote: it's nigh-impossible to make them change.
No it's not. You lynch them. You call them out. You make their life HELL while they don't change, and they either change or leave. We did this for YEARS on this site, with relatively few VIs. Then we got some critical mass of VIs at some point that
banded together
, and now they defend each other with meta, and it's like a VI Masonry that you can't effectively kill. That. Needs. To. Stop.

meta does not change the odds. Sometimes the VI is scum, and needs to be lynched. Sometimes the VI is town, and scum will never NK them. So you're left with a bunch of VIs and scum at endgame... what do you THINK is going to happen?

So I've started just trying to figure out how to read them, and if I decide they're town, they're just another bandwagon vote. If they're scum, they get lynched.
Admirable, but it requires special effort on the part of you, not the VI. That's not an adaptive strategy.
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:38 am

Post by SFG »

I guess I've gotten half-used to the wonders of IRC mafia where, after every game, you can ask what you did that was so scummy and they'll tell you, and even better, for your first few games there's someone out-of-game helping you figure out mechanics and how to properly scumhunt and, almost as importantly, translating all of the acronyms and jargon into plain old English for you.

Is there any way forum games could allow a younger player to consult with an older player during a game?
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:42 am

Post by TheButtonmen »

Hydra with someone.

My first game here I hydra'ed with Chamber and that worked out fairly well.
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:44 am

Post by Ectomancer »

Lost my old job, so I had to quit for a bit. Found a new one at Microsoft, so I'm ready to get back into the old excitegravation that is Mafia. I'll be finding a mini-normal, as I believe that as much as VI's contribute to an unsatisfactory game, mods who believe that "the more roles the better" or that it is their personal mission in life to punish the town for X behavior (follow the cop, trusting masons, etc) contribute just as much, and in many ways are the enablers for said VI's.
I'm going to wait a couple days to hit the queue. If anyone wants to find a game together, PM me and we'll figure out what works.
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:51 am

Post by Friend »

It's bad, Flay, but when people put things like "The VI has arived" [sic] in their signatures, they're not going to change, and policy lynching them is just another probable mislynch if you're playing the odds.
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