The Reliability of Wiki Tells/Standard Tells
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Lateralus22 Mafia Scum
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The Reliability of Wiki Tells/Standard Tells
Just wondering how reliable in general Wiki tells such as this and this are or if they're considered outdated.-
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bv310 Mafia Scum
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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bv310 Mafia Scum
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Lateralus22 Mafia Scum
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bv310 Mafia Scum
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I guess it depends on what the quote is. Just saying, "Welp, that sucks" doesn't really mean anything and should be seen as fluff (which it is). Saying, "Well, that blows. Anyway, here's what I think based on the flip" is better, while saying "Well, that sucks. Why didn't the doctor do his job?" is considerably worse.-
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Lord Gurgi Mostly Harmless
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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But when you ask people for advice or what things are the tell you to read the wikiLord Gurgi wrote:Don't read the wiki. Learn the game.ShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
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Lord Gurgi Mostly Harmless
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Or feel free to do both.Lord Gurgi wrote:Don't read the wiki. Learn the game.
Anyway, most people will tell you otherwise, but some of those tells are actually still at least moderately effective, if used properly. There are a lot of tells that are valid, so long as they're not misused. ("Valid" meaning "scum are somewhat more likely to do these things then town", not meaning "completely reliable"; nothing is completely reliable.) But, no, there's no standard list of tells that everyone agrees on; and if there was, not many of those tells would be on it theses days.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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bv310 Mafia Scum
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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The problem is people don't know what really is a scum tell and what isn't.
I have heard wifom and AtE be called scum tells but I have seen town also use these also.ShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
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bv310 Mafia Scum
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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That theory is actually much less true then most people would have you believe. There are any number of commonly known scumtells that have been around forever but are still entirely valid.bv310 wrote:By defining what people are going to be looking for, most scum will actively avoid those thingsI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Zachrulez Jack of All Trades
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Standard tells are known by both mafia and town. They are valuable, but you have to learn how to use and abuse them. Their biggest value is in argumentation. Everyone recognizes them, and certain ones of them can be quite convincing. For finding scum they are less usefull, because scum can avoid them. The most fun way to catch scum is to see who is unnaturally avoiding tells like these.
But, like gurgi said, it is better to learn the game. All these tells have a reason why they exist. Somehow it is natural for scum to congratulate the doctor (otherwise the tell wouldn't exist). You are a much better scumhunter if you know why tells like these exist, as it lets you use them at the right moment and against the right players. On some players certain tells will work, on some others it won't. Meta is very important, if only for that. You don't have to mention it, as the word "meta" nowadays makes people think you are scum, but it is important to have it in consideration.
Then, the last aspect of tells like these. The fact that scumcanavoid them. The word "can" in mafia implies WIFOM. If you know why these tells exist you can decide for yourself how effective such a tell can be (what percentage of scum will approximately be caught with it). Again, Meta acts as a reference. A certain player might usually make the same choice in the same situation. Some scum are bold and daring, others are timid. If you know this, the scumtells you use on them will be more effective.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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hasdgfas Jack of All Trades
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There's a huge difference between "well that sucks" and commenting on night results. Youbv310 wrote:Also, lol at the "Well, that sucks" tell. Not commenting on the night results is equally bad.knowit sucks when the cop/doc/vig gets killed, there is no reason to point it out except to get others to agree with you.jdodge1019: hasjghsalghsakljghs is from vermont
jdodge1019: vermont is made of liberal freaks and cows
jdodge1019: he's not a liberal
jdodge1019: thus he is a cow-
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Lord Gurgi Mostly Harmless
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Cow is right here. Standard tells were designed to provide examples ofwhysomething that might seem town is actually scummy, because people don't consider why the scum would benefit from this. It backfired and now things that should seem town seem scummy and so the commentary on night results has been severely curtailed. If you learn the game, learn to interpret circumstances, and just think, you'll do much better than if you withdraw from any critical thought to use cookie-cutter tells.(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough-
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bv310 Mafia Scum
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Lord Gurgi Mostly Harmless
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Yes there is. The point is how you interpret that. I would even have issue with "based on that flip" because nobody ever goes into why that person died. That's 'WIFOM', so instead stick with little constructed contingency plans and flow charts rather than reevaluating and thinking. The game is turning into lazy play. There's plenty of theory, but just like anywhere else, once theory is taken into the field it all falls apart. You need to understand and to be able to adapt.
The wiki following has encouraged completely ignoring night commentary and that's foolish. Completely spurning the wiki has lead to the complete disregard for the valid elements of the wiki. The world is dividing into two camps here, and neither are right. However, I think reading the wiki leads too far into either camp. The whole VI thing is a crutch to protect bad players. Ignoring the wiki makes you think and will lead you to question what others treat as a preconceived notion.
I'm trying to articulate the differences between what I think are the reasons you're talking about and the reasons I am.(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ugh. It is not.Lord Gurgi wrote:Yes there is. The point is how you interpret that. I would even have issue with "based on that flip" because nobody ever goes into why that person died. That's 'WIFOM',
The fact that town don't ever discuss why someone died, that it's become basically taboo, is a big part of the reason scum have such a high win percentage on this site I think. If you have something useful to say about the nightkill and about who would or would not want to kill that person, please, just say it.
Huh? I'm not sure what two camps there are. There are different schools of thought on scumhunting, but really none of them are wrong, per se.The world is dividing into two camps here, and neither are right.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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PogoStick Mafia Scum
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yeah I don't see how discussing the night kills is scummy, I mean how else are you going to get leads. you have to look at interactions and vote patternsShowCall me Rob, Hop, or joystick but I am better known in mafia world as the "Fall guy"
AtE is not a scum tell.
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Darox Mafia Scum
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hasdgfas Jack of All Trades
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:IagreewithYosarian2:Yosarian2 wrote:
Ugh. It is not.Lord Gurgi wrote:Yes there is. The point is how you interpret that. I would even have issue with "based on that flip" because nobody ever goes into why that person died. That's 'WIFOM',
The fact that town don't ever discuss why someone died, that it's become basically taboo, is a big part of the reason scum have such a high win percentage on this site I think. If you have something useful to say about the nightkill and about who would or would not want to kill that person, please, just say it.
see, there'sbv310 wrote:True. Like I said above, there's a difference between going "Well, that sucks" and going "Well, that blows, but here's what I think based on that flip". I just hate when people think that wikitells are guaranteed hits on scum.zeroreason to even make mention of the fact that it sucks. Same with "what a great night" when a godfather dies. That's super scummy, or at least anti-town, as there's no town motivation for it. Just skip that part entirely and just analyze.jdodge1019: hasjghsalghsakljghs is from vermont
jdodge1019: vermont is made of liberal freaks and cows
jdodge1019: he's not a liberal
jdodge1019: thus he is a cow-
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bv310 Mafia Scum
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