RVS v RQS

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 6:14 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

ReaperCharlie wrote:I very much prefer
ADS (Alliance Discussion Stage)
to either RVS or RQS.

It polarizes people on whether an Alliance is good for the town or not, and reveals scum much more efficiently.

And if an Alliance is in fact adopted, it's extremely effective at revealing scum.


yup
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 6:18 am

Post by ReaperCharlie »

You have never been in an ADS with me yet, have you?

They're freakin awesome.
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 7:06 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

Amrun wrote:
Faraday wrote:I hate when people ask inane questions in those sort of surveys and tend to ignore them.


This. You don't need to know my fucking hobbies.



THIS, if you include situation questions (for example: "X is lynched, and is town. Wjhat do you do?") as they depend on the game and what has happened.

I tend to ignore RQS, even if it does get me a few votes, the questions asked are very rarely/if ever useful.
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 7:53 am

Post by ReaperCharlie »

I ignore RQS as well, myself. It's retarded.

RVS is better than RQS because it stops goody-two-shoes people from trying to look pro-town and then getting all self-righteous Wrath of Mod on you when you don't answer the stupid questions.

I laugh in their faces. lol
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 12:35 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

sounds something like attention deficit syndrome though lol
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 1:21 pm

Post by SpyreX »

I don't like either. At least RVS tends to end faster.

Theory talk when it makes sense is good. Or just talkin'.

Alliance out of the gate is shenanigans. Sheesh
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 1:37 pm

Post by Super Smash Bros. Fan »

I like starting out with a combination of both these things. Puts both of the advantage of RQS and RVS together and dilutes the disadvantages.
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 6:05 pm

Post by Kcdaspot »

do both. maximum amount of info to draw upon.
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 6:05 pm

Post by Kcdaspot »

or what ssbf said...
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 6:09 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

Incognito wrote:Want a quick, easy way to decrease town morale? Use RQS! It works!


This.

What better way to slow down the game from the get go and begin conflict based on differing opinions then the RQS?

Policy vote all people who try to start a RQS, even in 'unique mech' games. Always, it hurts town so damn much and always goes unpunished. Wont answer them, and will try and make as many people as possible not answer them.
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 6:45 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

I find the best way to start the game is to vote for your favorite policy lynch, eg who you would have shot as a compulsive n0 vig. Gets discussion going, non-random, puts immediate weight behind your vote.
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 7:52 pm

Post by Papa Zito »

Just wagon someone to L-1 within a page or two and you can get on with the game.
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 8:32 pm

Post by ReaperCharlie »

SpyreX wrote:Alliance out of the gate is shenanigans. Sheesh

Agree to disagree.

Check out my past games where I've discussed Alliances out of the gate.

Works like a charm to polarize people and pinpoint scum.
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 4:38 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

The problem is NOT the "V" or the "Q" part, it's the "R" part. Start of game is a low-information stage of the game, but that doesn't mean that
irrelevant
questions or provably random votes have any sort of usefulness. When you can start with on-topic things, like what people's favorite type of role is, or what they'd do in scenario X, or other things that
actually have to do with the game
, it can be very useful.

Basically, if you want information, ask for information. If you want randomness and loss of focus, ask for that.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 9:13 am

Post by Super Smash Bros. Fan »

@hitogoroshi: But what if you find no one in the thread worthy of a policy lynch or a Night Zero vig and someone you would not wish to lynch regardless if we have information or not? What do you do then? Pretend to try to policy lynch a good player? I don't see how that would gather much information, the only thing I see is people obviously noticing that it's a joke and try other methods to end the non-information stage.

@Papa Zito: But then that leaves the player open to a quick lynch by a scum and destroying a whole day of information. When it comes to wagons without information, L-1 is too close.
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 9:18 am

Post by Faraday »

A quick lynch from scum isn't informative?

L-1 is awesome. The threat is real.
are you thinking of me when you're with somebody else?
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 11:03 am

Post by T-Bone »

Mr. Flay wrote:The problem is NOT the "V" or the "Q" part, it's the "R" part. Start of game is a low-information stage of the game, but that doesn't mean that
irrelevant
questions or provably random votes have any sort of usefulness. When you can start with on-topic things, like what people's favorite type of role is, or what they'd do in scenario X, or other things that
actually have to do with the game
, it can be very useful.

Basically, if you want information, ask for information. If you want randomness and loss of focus, ask for that.


QFT.

The best way to hunt scum in the beginning of the game in my opinion is to make scumhunting the subject from the get go. Asking about stupid shit isn't useful if it isn't directly related to scumhunting. So, the RVS or RQS stage is pretty helpful to scum :P
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 11:11 am

Post by Stefunny »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:sounds something like attention deficit syndrome though lol

RC has this too...
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 5:35 pm

Post by Kublai Khan »

ReaperCharlie wrote:I very much prefer
ADS (Alliance Discussion Stage)
to either RVS or RQS.

It polarizes people on whether an Alliance is good for the town or not, and reveals scum much more efficiently.

And if an Alliance is in fact adopted, it's extremely effective at revealing scum.

Do you have a link to a game where the ADS system worked really well? I'm intrigued by it..
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 7:02 pm

Post by Lord Gurgi »

To be honest, even if the ADS worked, I wouldn't use it. I hate alliances.
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 7:04 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

Meh. Alliances have their time, but I wouldn't use them often.
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 9:05 pm

Post by vollkan »

Kublai Khan wrote:
ReaperCharlie wrote:I very much prefer
ADS (Alliance Discussion Stage)
to either RVS or RQS.

It polarizes people on whether an Alliance is good for the town or not, and reveals scum much more efficiently.

And if an Alliance is in fact adopted, it's extremely effective at revealing scum.

Do you have a link to a game where the ADS system worked really well? I'm intrigued by it..


I haven't seen ADS before, but I imagine it has the same problems as bad RQS.

RQS can be useful if it addresses game-relevant stuff that you wouldn't normally ask for later on (eg. how often people post, what people's favourite roles are, meta, who has played with whom before,etc.) RQS is unhelpful when it is used for the purpose at starting theory/policy debates. ADS, by its very nature, creates a theory/policy debate - on a deeply polarising topic no less. I don't see how it can be useful, other than increasing suspicion on anybody who made a bad argument on the topic.

(I should probably mention that I think questions like "Do you support lurker lynches?" have their place in RQS since they force people to pre-commit to a particular position and, thus, may help to catch any scum who are tempted to shift position opportunistically. However, town needs to ensure that those questions aren't allowed to lead to game-destroying theory debates)
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 2:44 am

Post by Super Smash Bros. Fan »

Faraday wrote:A quick lynch from scum isn't informative?

L-1 is awesome. The threat is real.
When compared to a full day, no. We get a lot more information by playing the game and lynching someone for being scummy, not lynching someone on Pg. 1. Basically, the more information we have Day One, the better off we are in other days.

Plus not all situations like that is going to come from scum. I should have also mentioned that it can be caused by misguided town who doesn't know what the vote count is/judged it inaccurately.
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 3:02 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:Plus not all situations like that is going to come from scum. I should have also mentioned that it can be caused by misguided town who doesn't know what the vote count is/judged it inaccurately.

I've heard this over and over again as a 'threat', but the number of times I've seen it actually happen could be counted on one hand, or none.
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 7:16 am

Post by The Fonz »

I don't see Vollkan's problem with theory debates. Pretty much every Day one will at some point feature one or more players pushing another saying X is scummy behaviour, whereas the player targeted will argue that it's the right protown thing to do. I mean, that's theory, but if mafia isn't arguing about what is and isn't scummy behaviour, what is it?
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