Theory page

ISO · Post Post #25 (ISO) » Mon Apr 29, 2002 3:15 pm

cubestudent, my trick to being Mafia is to convince myself that I'm not. I tend to let others in my family make choices, and look for logic against others rather than Crap Logic (this works especially well when there is more than one family). Of course, I'm rarely Mafia, and usually get checked by Cops early, so it rarely works, but I don't really worry about mimicing style. I don't really *have* a set style anyway. Anyway, point is, it's not a good tactic to use when it comes to experienced players usually (though if you get them rattled enough, they may give themselves away), but it does work of newer players. Not that you have much to go on with newer players. Also. *~smacks Neo with The List~* BOW to The List, sinner.

ISO · Post Post #26 (ISO) » Mon Apr 29, 2002 3:16 pm

Oh, PW: yeah, it's coming. It won't be perfect until I get my program(s) working though; or maybe we can get a bunch of people on AIM for some quickie test games.

Dragon Phoenix · Post Post #27 (ISO) » Mon Apr 29, 2002 5:00 pm

good, because the way I 'balance' my games is not very scientific - read: I just follow a hunch. ;

Antrax · Post Post #28 (ISO) » Wed May 01, 2002 5:51 am

Well, in a way I have a simulation ready -- it's mostly debugged by now, and (unlike mith's) can handle multiple cops. Question is, do you think there's any meaning to running test games where the mafia kill at random (except for cops coming out) and the town lynched at random (except cops coming out)?Antrax

jeep · Post Post #29 (ISO) » Fri May 03, 2002 8:33 pm

Antrax, what language did you use? I saw someone had a pascal program for determining stats. I wrote one in (don't laugh) Perl in a couple hours the other day and I'm converting it to C++ now. I'd be interested in seeing your code.Actually, I was just adding in the cop role with the following assumptions:*If cop about to be lynched (2 votes away) he 'reveals' is not lynched that day, but is killed that night (currently, if multiple families, I have them all target him...). *If cop knows a mafia, that person gets lynched, else the innocents he reveals don't get lynched. *Revealed innocents are killed in following nights, unless another cop reveals. *If the cop gets all mafia and survives the night, then town wins.Currently multiple mobs are not handled elegantly. I am thinking with multiple mobs, maybe revealed cops get targeted by each family only ?70%? of the time, so 49% he is targetted by both families, ~9% he's not targetted, and rest he's targetted by only one family. That might make a better simulation.As to your question about if these types of analysis are valuable: yes, I think that 'random' simulations do help. They give you the numbers for the case of 'perfect play.' If each side plays perfectly no one knows who the others are except by investigations.I can easily add in Mason groups, they are simply mafia that don't kill at night... I have added code that mafia won't lynch themselves, which slightly changes the numbers that are posted in Numbers, part 1 or whatever that article is called.Anyway, I'm interested in seeing your code. ;Please send it to me.-JEEP

Antrax · Post Post #30 (ISO) » Sat May 04, 2002 1:49 am

I wrote it in PASCAL, I'll email you the code later today, when I find a diskette. You might also want to see mith's C version, which is a lot brighter than my program -- it uses a recursive function to determine the outcome of the game. Sadly, it's also more complex than my version, so he wasn't able to implement more than one cop yet.Antrax

jeep · Post Post #31 (ISO) » Sat May 04, 2002 3:37 pm

No recursion? ;*ponder* ;That must have been a bear to write. ;I look forward to seeing the code. ;Mith, can you send me your source code too?Thanks,-JEEP

Samadhi · Post Post #32 (ISO) » Sat May 04, 2002 6:28 pm

Smacks Neo and mith with Instinct™Neo, I haven't licensed you as an Instinct™ peddler. But thanks for the hype.mith, Instinct™ is much better than The List In a recent survey, 100% of people polled said they think Instinct™ is guaranteed to lynch a Mafia (or other character) while The List is sure to get a Cop (or other character) lynchedBow to Instinct™

Pudd'nhead Wilson · Post Post #33 (ISO) » Sat May 04, 2002 9:36 pm

Samadhi: What were the parameters of that poll? ;It sounds like you went out on the street, asked one person, then stopped when you got the answer you wanted. ;And that to find a test subject who would undoubtedly choose In-stinked;, all it took was a full length mirror. ;DP: good--that's the same way I balance them, too. ;Game design is like architecture--a silky-smooth blend of art and engineering.

Samadhi · Post Post #34 (ISO) » Sun May 05, 2002 12:39 am

Read my statement again, Puddin'head. It's true no matter who or how many people I ask.

mole · Post Post #35 (ISO) » Sun May 05, 2002 12:51 am

Yes, but you haven't informed anyone that all of the people you polled are on The List. As Admitted Mafia Scum in fact...

ISO · Post Post #36 (ISO) » Sun May 05, 2002 2:37 am

Bow to The List Repent, sinner, of your heathen ways Only the animals and IS use Instinct. Do you want to be like IS? The List is the Truth and the Light and will open all doors, reveal all secrets, show the world your Power Ranger underwear. The List is a scary force, capable of changing the future, the present, and even Last Thursday Many fear The List, but only the true scum, the dirty Mafia, seek to prevent you from following its ways. Woe to those who disrespect the list. Vote: Samadhi, Confirmed Mafia Heathen Scum.(you guys should've seen the rant i went on over on brunchma the other night )

Internet Stranger · Post Post #37 (ISO) » Sun May 05, 2002 3:47 am

Instincts are still better.

kuribo · Post Post #38 (ISO) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:29 pm

vonflare · Post Post #39 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:54 am

Oh nO wE aRE bEiNG InvAdEd By NEcrOs

Psyche · Post Post #40 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:40 am

remember when scummers cared about theory

Majiffy · Post Post #41 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:44 am

Killthestory · Post Post #42 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:02 pm

Mafia goes beyond the surface.

You start playing the game like it was your life. "You're always playing mafia." You play outside without breaking the ruels of course. Let's say I'm due to engage someone, I treat them really nice and make them prefer me to to others. It's how my friend Gob is so fucking good at this shit dude.

You ever had that feeling where you can say and do whatever the fuck you want and still win? Still hammer scum? Still see all the shit most other players can't see?

Everybody is beatable. Flaws are in every personality. Playstyles are a direct imitation of your personality whether you like it or not. Just is.

ISO · Post Post #43 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:57 pm

You can say and do whatever the fuck you want but that doesn't mean others will enjoy playing with you for it.

Davsto · Post Post #44 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:33 am

In post 39, vonflare wrote: Oh nO wE aRE bEiNG InvAdEd By NEcrOs

I read one letter of this wrong and thought you were being incredibly racist.

vonflare · Post Post #45 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:46 pm

In post 44, Davsto wrote:
In post 39, vonflare wrote: Oh nO wE aRE bEiNG InvAdEd By NEcrOs

I read one letter of this wrong and thought you were being incredibly racist.

top kek?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #46 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:13 am

In post 42, Killthestory wrote:Mafia goes beyond the surface.

You start playing the game like it was your life. "You're always playing mafia." You play outside without breaking the ruels of course. Let's say I'm due to engage someone, I treat them really nice and make them prefer me to to others. It's how my friend Gob is so fucking good at this shit dude.

You ever had that feeling where you can say and do whatever the fuck you want and still win? Still hammer scum? Still see all the shit most other players can't see?

Everybody is beatable. Flaws are in every personality. Playstyles are a direct imitation of your personality whether you like it or not. Just is.

Personalities are not static.

Besides, I can be a terrible player without being scum.

Killthestory · Post Post #47 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:27 am

In post 46, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 42, Killthestory wrote:Mafia goes beyond the surface.

You start playing the game like it was your life. "You're always playing mafia." You play outside without breaking the ruels of course. Let's say I'm due to engage someone, I treat them really nice and make them prefer me to to others. It's how my friend Gob is so fucking good at this shit dude.

You ever had that feeling where you can say and do whatever the fuck you want and still win? Still hammer scum? Still see all the shit most other players can't see?

Everybody is beatable. Flaws are in every personality. Playstyles are a direct imitation of your personality whether you like it or not. Just is.
Personalities are not static.

Besides, I can be a terrible player without being scum.

im not sure what youre referring to in the first one, but i agree. oh my god you guys should have seen my earlier games LOL. However, that just means you have to adapt. you cant just use the same thing every time you play with someone, mafia is a game about versatility.

being good or terrible is not alignment indicative.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #48 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:29 am

In post 47, Killthestory wrote:
In post 46, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 42, Killthestory wrote:Mafia goes beyond the surface.

You start playing the game like it was your life. "You're always playing mafia." You play outside without breaking the ruels of course. Let's say I'm due to engage someone, I treat them really nice and make them prefer me to to others. It's how my friend Gob is so fucking good at this shit dude.

You ever had that feeling where you can say and do whatever the fuck you want and still win? Still hammer scum? Still see all the shit most other players can't see?

Everybody is beatable. Flaws are in every personality. Playstyles are a direct imitation of your personality whether you like it or not. Just is.
Personalities are not static.

Besides, I can be a terrible player without being scum.

im not sure what youre referring to in the first one, but i agree. oh my god you guys should have seen my earlier games LOL. However, that just means you have to adapt. you cant just use the same thing every time you play with someone, mafia is a game about versatility.

being good or terrible is not alignment indicative.

That means that the flaws in my personality do not necessarily correlate with me being alignment X or Y. I have made so many mistakes by lynching people I thought were scum, because of some perceived flaw in their play, that I cannot be certain about anything anymore. I have become Mafia agnostic.

Killthestory · Post Post #49 (ISO) » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:17 pm

In post 48, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 47, Killthestory wrote:
In post 46, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 42, Killthestory wrote:Mafia goes beyond the surface.

You start playing the game like it was your life. "You're always playing mafia." You play outside without breaking the ruels of course. Let's say I'm due to engage someone, I treat them really nice and make them prefer me to to others. It's how my friend Gob is so fucking good at this shit dude.

You ever had that feeling where you can say and do whatever the fuck you want and still win? Still hammer scum? Still see all the shit most other players can't see?

Everybody is beatable. Flaws are in every personality. Playstyles are a direct imitation of your personality whether you like it or not. Just is.
Personalities are not static.

Besides, I can be a terrible player without being scum.

im not sure what youre referring to in the first one, but i agree. oh my god you guys should have seen my earlier games LOL. However, that just means you have to adapt. you cant just use the same thing every time you play with someone, mafia is a game about versatility.

being good or terrible is not alignment indicative.
That means that the flaws in my personality do not necessarily correlate with me being alignment X or Y. I have made so many mistakes by lynching people I thought were scum, because of some perceived flaw in their play, that I cannot be certain about anything anymore. I have become Mafia agnostic.

oh fuck me

no why would i say that.

no flaws are for playstyles. playstyles directly imitate your personality somewhat, but they're not where the flaws come from. they come from how you play which is however you want to play