The Mystery... The Mayhem (Good or Bad?)

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In a game with unique roles and other twists, how much should the mod reveal to players at the beginning of the game?

 
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The Mystery... The Mayhem (Good or Bad?)

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:50 pm

Post by Mike Amok »

Personally, I'm all for confusion, surprise twists, anything the mod can do to torture the players. On the other hand, games sometimes turn into guess-the-setup, or who-can-BS-the-best-role, or everybody-reveals-their-role-but-nobody-knows-who-to-trust. Does this hurt the game, or is it all part of the continuing evolution of Mafia?

I have some ideas for a game - not quite a theme game, I don't think - but with some roles that could constitute a "twist." It would still have all the usual roles, bar plain townies. Not all of this really applies to my game, but I'm wondering how much other people like to be messed with by the mod.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:06 pm

Post by Angel Fish »

1) I'm going to mod a game in which the roles are revealed as necessary (i.e. after a killing, or lynching, some details of the killee and the killer are revealed). That's the sort of level I like. Plus perhaps a few really hidden details or 'game events' which may or may not occur.

2) I don't let people reveal their roles. Thus no competing to invent the best role.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:15 pm

Post by Cadmium »

I
voted: Surprises are okay, but give the setup. Players should know how many mafia/cops/docs etc. there are.


I don't really like to be messed with by the mod. Surprises are okay, like the one in Improbable Role Mafia. I liked the twist that there's a chance that a voter could be killed as well (that didn't turn out too well for me btw). But when you get a role, and the E-mailed description is different from the true role you got, I think it sucks. I've had it more than once.
So, surprises during the game are okay, but don't say anything that turns out to be different (I don't like lies, unless I'm mafia).

This is just my opinion! I think it's up to the mod what to put in his game. After all, it's his/her game.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:11 am

Post by mole »

I like Angel Fish's method. After your weird characters die, give a short description of whose side they were on and what they did. You can probably get away with not telling them anything in some themed games (Bladerunner was a good example - it wasn't hard to work out that the replicants were [allegedly] the mafia, and Deckard and the other bladerunners were cops), but in normal games nobody will know what's going on.

I haven't seen the "you can't reveal your role" rule properly enforced yet (there have been some roles that weren't allowed to say anything, and DP encourages us not to say anything unless it's an emergency). I will be interested to see how it turns out - we'll have to play more logically...
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:28 am

Post by jesternl »

I like confusing roles, and especially the improbable roles, but indeed Bladerunner was too confusing I think. There was no way to check the validity of the replicants, even after the real bad guys died.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:04 am

Post by Antrax »

I woudln't have enjoyed the game so much if we could just prove our innocence. It would offset things to the replicants' side too much if we could prove our claims. I'm all for revealing nothing -- it's the idea behind the game, IMO. Querciton's mafia 3 is really fun, IMO.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:44 am

Post by Corsato »

I really enjoyed querci's maf 3, not knowing certain things is really frustrating, and fun at the same time.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:56 am

Post by Sketchwick »

I voted I love surprises....yes I agree with everyone that mafia 3 is wicked fun.

Angel Fish: I am convinced rules designed to limit what people can say is not going to work. It will just degenerate into not revealing info you should be able to. Think of a normal game where the cop can't reveal his role.
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Because I'm a...oh. I can't reveal my role. Just trust me on this one, lynch IS. I like games with no straight up townies. Look at dune mafia, how many fremen were there? They all had an ability (that was an unknown liability in a lot of ways) and it was much fun to see the town boggle at the possibility of all these night killers running around.

I think the key to a good game like mafia 3 is the barely useful roles. I believe Antrax mentioned in another thread that a role should never be to important to the overall game. I totally agree. You can still have big effects, but be sure to balance them with their unlikelyhood. Look at mafia 3 again, we MIGHT have lynched neo the first day...maybe the chance of the lynch machine killing people eventually maxes out, maybe it doesn't...I have no idea, but I LOVE thinking about it.

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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:09 am

Post by Macros »

it doesn't amtter to me what the mod does, i follow the crowd when it come to lynching,t hat simple, dont start it, don end it, jsut sit around the middle.

as for modding, whn i mod aim, i try to avoid telling roles, i know its different, but for the games i am going to run soon, it will be very vague as too what or who they have lynched (i'll still give the roel, but thats it, no description of their abilities), simply, all will be revealled at the end.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:34 am

Post by Cadmium »

I just wanted to say I also think that Querci's Mafia 3 is a great game. In fact, I think it's my favorite game so far. I had
the
most fun!
I agree with Sketchwick about the roles. They shouldn't be too important for a game. It only makes everybody to dependant to these persons. You still can add funny stuff to a role but it shouldn't make too much of an impact on a game.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 9:34 am

Post by Angel Fish »

Sketch - we manage at Brunchma without revealing roles outright; I like the challenge of cop-type roles having to reveal their information subtly.

Revealing outright (e.g. I am the X, this is what I know) would result in a player being removed from the game by a mod - I think this has only happened once out of 10 games or so.

Then again - sometimes it seems obvious who/what people are, but even then players will say "You all know what I am, and I think we should do X" rather than "yes I am a cop, here's what I know". It's just a different style of play.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 10:19 am

Post by Macros »

8O you remove them fro saying that?
GL mafia trives on people claiming roles, and everyone else disbeleiving them. it how it happens! unholy unholy! sacrilege you blasphemus Brunchers!
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 11:20 am

Post by Angel Fish »

It's a crazy, crazy world out there, you know.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 11:31 am

Post by eillid »

I liked Q's M3. It was fun not to know who everyone was, what sorts of roles they'd have, and even what might happen if certain events happened (for example, when I was lynched, a serial killer role was created).
I don't like to reveal roles (I've been forced into it twice, once in a mini game here and the other in IRC mafia, and the first time I totally lied and the second I tried to be subtle, and didn't outright say "I'm the cop"). Maybe that comes from my Brunchmafia upbringing. :)
Macros, the removal was a bit of an extreme case. The sab. was communicating with the mafia privately, which wasn't allowed (I don't even think the angel who communicated through the dead was removed--I think she was just assassinated by the mafia). Still, people don't really reveal over there.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:52 pm

Post by Samadhi »

Bladerunner wasn't confusing at all! :wink:
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 9:48 pm

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

I jumped on the #2 bandwagon (although I voted before looking). And I second the remarks on Quercitrons mafia - it is brilliant and is by far the most entertaining mafia game I have seen. So far (meaning it is not finished yet and on the toher hand, there are other games coming... ;))
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 10:09 pm

Post by mole »

24 was fun - arming a third of the townsfolk (with little warning) certainly gave us some exciting moments of paranoia... :)
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Wed Jun 12, 2002 11:22 pm

Post by mole »

And as much as some people (mith ;) didn't like it, the angel in Speed Mafia 1 did seek (and receive) permission from the moderator to do what she did...
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:13 am

Post by Ningal »

Re SBM 1: Personally, I think Anson must have misplaced his brain when Rabs came asking permission to do that. But eillid and mole are right (and we actually had no idea Rabs was the angel; we just zotted her for being overly vocal).

(PS: mith wasn't the only one complaining. Harry Tik and I and maybe daybreaker or Hippo II also yelled at Anson. Of course, you'd expect the
mafiosi
not to like it...)
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Thu Jun 13, 2002 9:13 pm

Post by Luna »

I didn't mind Rabs revealing her role, I'm used to such things (I've played or modded almost every game on all three boards, so not much shocks me ;)); it was the bit about telling someone else what you got outside the thread that I didn't like. Completely messes up the game balance and stuff (unless you have the whole thing planned out from the start so that such an occurance is fair). Besides, when it's against the rules to reveal your role in public, how is it *not* against the rules to tell someone info you received in private?

And bah at being *lynched* for it.

Not sure about Mafia 3, I've hardly looked at it since I died (though Luna has been giving me updates). I'm not sure I liked my particular role (but, that may just be because I was planning to use it for Monty Python Mafia in the future ;)), but otherwise, it seems entertaining.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:54 pm

Post by CrystyB »

I don't know what happened, but i hope i'm guessing correctly. (i guess 'A cop revealed info to a found-innocent')
I've always been of oppinion that a cop COULD do that, even though i know most people disagree w/ me.
:twisted:
Edit: ((Disclaimer: COMPLETELY off-topic)) Wow my memory really amazes me sometimes. i DID remember f4f4f4!!! I wonder if Q would have...
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2002 2:26 pm

Post by Ningal »

A quick rundown of Rabsgate.

The cast:
Rabs - cop
Fieari - townie
"Greek" Toomey - townie
daybreaker - mafioso

The events:
Rabs investigated "Greek" Toomey and daybreaker, both of whom had been looking a bit suspicious. She revealed the results of her investigation of "Greek" to Fieari, who was dead and therefore as thoroughly confirmed innocent as it gets (not to mention that he couldn't be killed to get him out of the way). The next day, when a small bandwagon had formed for "Greek", Fieari passed the information on to the rest of the town, giving them the benefit of the information without the risk of Rabs coming out and being shot the next night. Almost immediately, people began leaping onto the bandwagon to see if Fieari's informer was really the cop. Rabs, at some point, told Fieari that she had investigated daybreaker and found him guilty, which he dutifully relayed to the town. The "Greek" bandwagon was promptly derailed, and daybreaker was lynched. Rabs was killed the next night by the mafia, but that was coincidence.

Gah, hope you actually managed to follow that.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:16 pm

Post by CrystyB »

That was
N'T
coincidence! That was the hand of God(s)!!! ;)
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