Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

[Umbrage]

Maybe a Best Gambit Award? All the best role claims are that anyway, and it'll open up the possibilities. Best Single Game Performance is too vague, Best Gambit will allow us to honour the truly epic funny moments in games.

[Faraday]

We already have enough idiots who think they can gambit - let's not encourage it even more with a scummy.

[quadz08]

I still think that "Funniest Post" is the way to go for a "funny" award.

EDIT: Funniest Post in a Mafia Game, that is.

[Faraday]

I still think that "Funniest Post" is the way to go for a "funny" award.

EDIT: Funniest Post in a Mafia Game, that is.

It is kind of like that except it doesn't limit it to one post? So a funny exhange would be eligible?

[Amrun]

I would be okay with something like "Best Single Game Performance" to really highlight someone's roleclaim if they did well, or some kind of "this one awesome event/funny sequence of events" award to make up for it. I do think claiming is too narrow, and if we're going to have an award for claiming, we'd need to take a look at breaking down "good play" into several different minutiae and do a lot of things.

I would probably be okay with this is a compromise. I still prefer the Best Claim scummy to survive, but... If I can't have that, I'll take this.

[zoraster]

Maybe we should just bring people in on what the actual suggestion was than hint around at it. I do appreciate you guys not singling me out, but I'm okay:

I think quadz has a point in that something a little less serious might be a positive thing. Something to sort of document the lighter side of mafia. But Funniest Role Claim has been seriously played out. It was probably funny half a decade ago when someone claimed something krazy, but it's lost a lot of its zing.

So instead, why not something more general:

The That Funny Thing Happened Award

Given for an in game post or series of posts that tickle the participants and judges. Given to as many people as the judges feel the award justifies.

This way, we get what we really want: links to funny in game stuff. It could be a role claim, but it could also be something really funny like banter between two people or something.

---
And how about replacing the Best Role Claim with a

Best Individual Performance in a Single Game

. First, this is not unprecedented. Until 2008, we had this award, essentially. Second, the way I'd like to see it implemented is that people nominate for Don Corleone and Paragon body of work awards, and while considering that the judges pull out some really notable performances. Most of the time, people are nominated for Don Corleone and Paragon for individual performances anyway. My worry is that if it's a direct nomination that we'll really weaken and water down the Paragon and Don Corleone award and vice versa.

I think this allows a spectacular performance, perhaps capped off by an amazing role claim, to shine through in a way that in a body of work award it does not necessarily. But it's far broader than just best role claim.

\

there's been a good deal of discussion since, but I see no reason you can't get the water straight from the hose at this point in time.

[SleepyKrew]

So I agree with zor's proposals. Does anyone else agree with zor's proposals? Because I do.

[IceGuy]

So I agree with zor's proposals. Does anyone else agree with zor's proposals? Because I do.

I also agree.

[Mr. Flay]

I actually agree with Ice, chamber. Scummies are pretty far removed. While best Gambit might cause a player to gambit when he would not, instituting statistics and the like WOULD mean that people would start to make different choices in what games they play, who they play against, etc.

The entire history of ranked online gaming stands attests to this.

This.

More later, but I do support one of the Role Claim awards coming back, preferrably in a way that allows any alignment to win.

[Amrun]

My worry is that if it's a direct nomination that we'll really weaken and water down the Paragon and Don Corleone award and vice versa.

Best Claim wouldn't cut into either of those in the same way. Your worry would be moot.

[zoraster]

Yes, but it also has all the problems that I explained before. Just because it lacks the concern I listed with a new suggested award doesn't mean it's superior.

[Amrun]

But I don't agree that any of the things you listed before were problems.

[zoraster]

You didn't need to.

EDIT: That sounded harsher than I meant it to be. I just mean that this thread is so that we can take feedback into consideration and give you our reasoning for things. Our disagreeing on something will happen -- I understand your point. It's taken into consideration.

[Oversoul]

I was throwing around the idea of merit based achievements instead of the classical way scummies are handled with someone over aim the other day. The entire process for awarding them atm seems flawed because I think judges are rarely as invested as they'd need to be to make strong choices, and the nomination process requires you actually get nominated for a given award. Examples of achievements being something like winning > x% of your town games, winning > y% of your scum games, never getting mislynched as town, never getting lynched as mafia, being in a game where you were only on scum lynches. I'm sure you guys can think of more. The idea would be objective awards that could be handed out to any number of people.

Issues with this are the current method of display of scummies, and actually tracking it all, but hopefully that would be worked out on the backed of the site by next year (which if I understand correctly is what you are taking suggestions for?)

Chamber, with all due respect, this is not a good.

Please for the love of good do not rush to implement this into the site.

I don't know if you have heard of this term before, but it is called Gamification. I have played on forums and and on games that make it so normally unimportant things (like a winratio) suddenly become important or "used" for some achievement based mechanic.

You might claim that we are all mature and that we can realize seeking these things for the sake of their symbol (a picture, icon, etc) is a bad idea, but not everyone will be like that. Not everyone will realize the harmful side effects of pursuing these goals. They trivialize the game and turn it into a competition centered around fame and prestige rather than the thrill of the game and the fun originally put in place.

It turns people in materialistic attention seekers. The Scummies do slightly encourage this behavior, as does the Title Process, but both are strictly monitored so such behavior occurs less frequently, and when it does occur, it is quickly stifled.

I ask you out of respect, do not follow this project any further. Gamification is poor game design and is a cheap substitute in place of real design with actual fun.

I am glad to see this thread.

One quick question, why are most of the scummies turning towards Body of Work awards? I know some of you have commented on trying to retain a few single game awards, but why the migration?

[Ythan]

I agree emphatically with Oversoul.

[zoraster]

To be fair, mafia is a game...

[Oversoul]

To be fair, mafia is a game...

That's exactly it. Designers gamify aspects that are boring in order to make them more inticing which is only masking the problem - that part of the game is boring and has a naturally bad design.

Mafia *doesn't* need this, in my opinion. It is fine as it is and this would only hurt the site.

[zoraster]

Yeah. I agree.

[Ythan]

I continue to agree emphatically with Oversoul.

[chamber]

Please for the love of good do not rush to implement this into the site.

Uh. I code stuff, but only with the OK of admins. Back end tracking is going to happen and has been in the works for sometime. Achievements are an idea I brought up just now and would only do if it got oked. I'm not just going to make it and tell everyone to fuck off or something.

[Mr. Flay]

Heh. I still like you, chamber.

One quick question, why are most of the scummies turning towards Body of Work awards? I know some of you have commented on trying to retain a few single game awards, but why the migration?

Well, most awards work as well or better as Body of Work than they do as Single Game awards (consistency, avoiding flukes/setup-gained advantages, etc). But yeah, I think we should create/reinstate some single-game Scummies. If nothing else, it reduces the number of 17-game-records the judges have to go through.

[UberNinja]

Maybe a Best Gambit Award? All the best role claims are that anyway, and it'll open up the possibilities. Best Single Game Performance is too vague, Best Gambit will allow us to honour the truly epic funny moments in games.

Hey, this is actually a good idea.

We already have enough idiots who think they can gambit - let's not encourage it even more with a scummy.

No really. By all means; let's.

[SleepyKrew]

No really. Let's not.

[chamber]

I think scummies as they are are deeply flawed, if no one else is with me on that then I see why you'd be so adverse to my suggestion.

[zoraster]

They may be flawed, chamber. Any system where a group judges others on their accomplishments is in some way flawed. But the medicine is worse than the symptoms.