Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

[Nexus]

scrap the scummies

[Realeo]

scrap the scummies

Meh.

Shrug. Good Townplay to me is not about guessing correctly, it's about the process. Just like I wouldn't nom a scum player/team for roflstomping a clueless and bickering Town, a clean Town win against a disorganized scumteam is hollow. Good Townplay is about the cool use of logic and perception against a worthy opponent, effectively gamesolving despite obstacles. A single-game Town award to me would look like a single player or a strong Townbloc defeating capable opposition, particularly if the scumteam possessed an initial advantage and the Townies rallied or came together, overcoming division to unify through leadership and teamwork.

There's quite a big difference between single-game performance, which may be influenced by environment, playerlist, circumstance, and the price of milk in Newark, versus consistent patterns of solid play as represented in BoW awards. It has never made sense to me why Town was a BoW and scum an individual award.

I agree that scum needs to be BoW.

However, on your point of Town single-game.

I think your theory is good---until you start collecting nominees. The probelm with Scummies is that we do not declare "Compotent" or "Not Compotent", we declare who is the best.

Comparing a town single-game is kinda confusing. For example, which one is better? A VT calling the entire scum from page 1 or a townblok able to work together but make some few mistakes?

The process Realeo. What matters it the process

Ok. Process then. I may argue that a "VT calling the entire scum" is not an achievement. Why? Because finding mafia is only half the story. Communication is important. The VT clearly fails the second part. In the townblok, they fail the first part.

So who deserves it?

Comparing single town game is fiendish due to too many noise!

[Realeo]

I want to push this idea back.

as well as perhaps even the Best IC

I have a question. What does exactly the Best IC do? Why we give award to the Best IC?

I mean, IC is a special position since it's a

community service

right. Take example of military, which is a community service. They don't award "The best soldier", they award "Extremely Competent Soldiers". Plural. More than 1. They don't say, "Hey you're a good soldier, but you ranked #20 so sucks to be you because we only give to #1!"

Instead of rewarding one award to the best IC, can't we just award multiple award to competent(s) IC?

Because I think IC is intergral to this community and deserve better than just one receiver.

[xRECKONERx]

I think single-game Town award has been discussed before. It was shafted because the award is no longer awarding good game but simply statistics (ie. They mislynch 1 town. Bad play).

I don't think BoW scum has been discussed here?

yes it has

it was scrapped partially because scumplay is sneaky by design and once you pull off some kind of big move / bluff / gambit / etc you lose the ability to do that as easily in the future. and scum is just all about surviving, so it makes it harder.

with town if you're drawing NKs early because you're so good at the game, then that's kinda a point in your favor. so you can more easily run a BoW analysis on town play across multiple games.

[xRECKONERx]

we haven't given a best IC award in a couple years.

[xRECKONERx]

btw im not on the SSC anymore so this is just me voicing my opinion

[Realeo]

play is sneaky by design and once you pull off some kind of big move / bluff / gambit / etc you lose the ability to do that as easily in the future. and scum is just all about surviving, so it makes it harder.

with town if you're drawing NKs early because you're so good at the game, then that's kinda a point in your favor. so you can more easily run a BoW analysis on town play across multiple games.

Hold on a second. Are you saying that someone cannot be consistently good at being scum?

Granted, you cannot make big move all the time but [1] does big move is the only criterion for good scum? [2] isn't surviving the lynch as scum is also a skill?

[zoraster]

The problem with BOW scum is that it pushes the award toward those who simply play a TON rather than play particularly well. And that's because of the probability of being scum. If you're judging a BOW award, you likely want at least 5 or so games to judge on. But that means on average your players would need 20 or so games in a year to achieve that scum ratio. We HAVE those people on the site, but they're a minority of the total players (though they make up a significant amount of the player base).

Contrast that to town, where to get 5 or so games on average you only need on average 7 or so games in a year to accomplish.

On the flip side, because scum have fewer players per game, it's far easier to determine individual effort. Even the best town player ultimately works in tandem with the rest of the town and it's only as multiple games go on that the trends really emerge. That's not nearly as necessary for scum, where being one of a handful of people allows an individual to really stand out even in a single game.

[hiplop]

Yea like I've had entire years where I've played over 20 games and rolled scum once. I think BOW there is a mistake for sure

[Gorkington]

unless you do BOW for the person's cumulative scumplay to that point even beyond that year? might be a little too broad in scale, but might also do a better job of rewarding someone for good scumplay over the years vs a single year.

[Cerberus v666]

unless you do BOW for the person's cumulative scumplay to that point even beyond that year? might be a little too broad in scale, but might also do a better job of rewarding someone for good scumplay over the years vs a single year.

This is good.

It shouldn't be a BoW for the year award, it should be a lifetime achievement.

This does bring up difficulties, most notable in judging the nominees, since there's a lot more material to look at, and the fact that it would basically be the same set of nominees each year for awhile, with just then previous years winner being replaced by a new finalist, and so on.

[hiplop]

That sounds like a not good idea. People improving/getting worse/their reputatin carrying them rather than their ability.

just seems like a mistake

[Cerberus v666]

:/ yeah, that's also a concern.It could be be a biennial award perhaps, to mitigate the issues with not having enough scum games to go off of, while still being based on current play?

[Gorkington]

it could require at least 1-2 good scumgames in the year of nomination to prevent pure long-term reputation from getting in the way?

[zakk]

Something something AwesomePants something something Friends Forever ...

[Pine]

I don't know about the BoW Town award, but the Excellent Moderation BoW award requires links to at least three example games in the year in question. I would presume all BoW awards operate similarly

[Spiffeh]

Is it worth trying to argue for Best Town Performance and Best Scum Performance team awards to come back?

Because I still think it's pretty lame that they don't exist anymore

[zakk]

Same ^

[Spiffeh]

Where can I find a list of people on the SSC?

[zakk]

Just ask Reck or UT or Venmar I seem to remember they were all on it

[mastina]

Where can I find a list of people on the SSC?

Last years' are included in the scummies 2016 ceremony thread.

[Cheery Dog]

Where can I find a list of people on the SSC?

memberlist.php?mode=group&g=13684

[Pine]

Is it worth trying to argue for Best Town Performance and Best Scum Performance team awards to come back?

Because I still think it's pretty lame that they don't exist anymore

Same ^

Agreed. I think there is a substantive and important difference between outstanding individual performances and instances where an entire team is firing on all cylinders and working together. Not to mention that all of the team noms for Don Corleone last year seemed to have been discarded out of hand...

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not on it anymore.

[Kublai Khan]

I might regret this, but I would really like to know why. So far I have gotten answers such as "Hydra's are bad" and "That will limit Hydra participation" and "We don't want to encourage Hydras" then people just saying "Its a bad idea" without explaining why.

No one has yet to actually explain why its a bad idea. They think they know what I am saying, but the arguments against what I suggest doesn't match what I am saying.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70735