mole is being overly ambitious (Large Series of Articles)

[mole]

A rehash of the "book" topic (I've scaled things down somewhat to please some of you ;) - I'm planning a large sample game (let's say ~20 - 25 players) in which, after the transcript of each day, I can rant about whatever I like - the key part the cop played just then, what the mafia are trying to do, why IS was lynched etc.

When this is all done, new players should be able to read the annotated game and know how to play well, as opposed to reading games on the boards (which, if anything, only have a few cryptic comments at the end to explain what happened) or the current articles, which to me seem a bit empty.

So, to any newcomers, and to anyone who (like me) has wasted their month away thinking about this idea - who's in? How detailed should we get? (I know there were a few concerns about stating the "best" strategy for the mafia/town to pursue only to have it become outdated.)

[mathcam]

I think CaptainBlicero was working on a game exactly like this. Maybe you should check with him before proceeding. I'm not sure if he's made his way back to the site yet, though.

Cam

[mole]

Yeah, he mentioned it in my previous thread... hope they can recover that. :)

[mathcam]

Yeah, I can't remember too much about it. I think he recruited me as an observer to watch the game and make comments or something. It's all a little fuzzy.

Cam

[mole]

In the meantime, I shall continue. I don't think this part was in the original thread:

Now, I may have conceded that we'll never get this thing actually published :), but I can still dream, can't I?

Here's my conundrum, and the subject of my next poll (I probably should have thought of this earlier, so I could put it up): I want our new player to be able to read the game as if he were playing it and try to work out who the mafia are by himself. To do that, we're going to have to either

a)

separate the articles and the game entirely (so one reads the game transcript first, tells the world his suspicions and then the players/mod/columnists pop up and say "Well, this is what really happened. Try reading through again and see if you can spot the mafia doing X - that was really clever" or something) or

b)

somehow write the articles in such a way that they don't give anything away. Or

c)

tell mole he's still crazy and hope he stays quiet next time he has another stupid idea.

[Someone]

Speaking from the noobish point of view , I would not find it extremly useful. A beginner like me can learn all he needs to know from games already played. After someone like me get a basic feel of a game then the best way to learn is to actually play.

The hardest thing for me is that ususally with the opening posts there are spoilers Ex: mini 23-Town wins!!!

Besides that most games are pretty easy to follow and I would not need "announcer type roles guiding me through.

On the other hand, It probably will help some people and if you want to do it, I do not object. I'm just saying that if you really hate writing or something it wont really hurt the community not to do this kind of stuff.

It is a good idea and, if it ever gets implemented I look foward to getting good enough at the game to help

[Green Crayons]

Here's the thing about trying to help out "newbies" of mafia games: if you tell them a tried-and-true mafia hunting skill (such as "mafia are the third on a bandwagon,").. people who play scum will stop doing that. Sometimes it boggles my mind how advanced players can actually deduce who scum is, and correctly, nonetheless - is it possible for someone to act too "normal," and thus they stand out as the badguy? I dont know.

I think a game with commentary from the players themselves (might i suggest a simple regular mini with the experienced folk) as it goes on would be best - rather than from an outside, moderator point of view (though i suppose one would be good, as well).

You could separate the thing into something like this:

-At the end of each game night, have links to separate pages (i guess totally separate threads that should be locked, and added to only by the players who "own" the thread) in the night-to-day post for each player that had a night action. There, that player can post his reasoning for doing whatever action(s) he might have done over night.

-At the end of each game day, have links to separate pages (i would imagine the same place for each player.. no need for separate night/day threads for each player, as they could just simply indicate what portion of the game they're musing about in the subject heading) in the day-to-night post for each player, and have them post all their reasonings behind their conclusions and assumptions and the like.


I hope that makes sense. I think it would be better to get an "inside view" of the players as the game progresses, if need be. Say i read through day one, and Antrax and Mith really get into it. Yeah, they're the big deal, and i'm drawing my own conclusions, but i'm curious what Mr.-Silent-But-Wise Dragon Pheonix is thinking about, so i just simply click on the link at the end of the day post, and Wham. Wah-lah.


I think its a great idea, by the way. You'd just have to get players that wouldn't slack off in explaining their reasoning.

[mathcam]

Here's the thing about trying to help out "newbies" of mafia games: if you tell them a tried-and-true mafia hunting skill (such as "mafia are the third on a bandwagon,").. people who play scum will stop doing that.

Though I agree in principle, this does not preclude the existence of univeral strategies. If we taught newbies "Mafia don't claim to be mafia on day 1", this surely wouldn't imply that all the mafia would go aroudn claiming to be mafia on day 1 to avoid this heuristic.

I think I made this point in the similar thread before the board went down, but I envision any attempt at defining strategy at this game to be similar to doing so for poker. They are both incomplete information with roles/cards assigned randomly, and a great deal of strategy comes in they way of convincing people of incorrect beliefs. Yet poker strategy abounds. Playing probabilities and knowing the "general rules" will help you make the right play a good portion of the time.

Cam

[CaptainBlicero]

Yeah, I think a full game with analysis is an awesome idea.

I was hoping to create a game where the players themselves would be obligated to write up the reasoning behind their votes and night choices at the end of each Day. Plus the mod would add analysis, plus I was hoping to recruit some "outside observers" who would know the whole setup and could also help out with comments. I drew up a scheme for a 12-player game because I figured the less players, the easier it would be to make sure they did the write-ups. I think being able to compare the mod's comments with the players' comments (and the players' guesses with what actually is happening) would be very instructional -- having extra viewpoints can only help.

However, I can't start up a game of this caliber at the moment for various reasons, so I probably won't even try to roll this out until early September.

Mole - If you want to start your game, I am definitely in, either to play or add comments or whatever else you want.

[mlaker]

The idea sounds pretty cool! It really would have helped me in my first days of Mafia.

mlaker

[mole]

Great, now I have something to do during the three maths classes tomorrow.

[Neo]

You remember that list of terms found in mafia games that we worked on long long ago mole? I think I still might have it....

[CaptainBlicero]

Texas Mafia is being re-run. I'm going to do a big write-up comparing the original game to the new one, and I would welcome extra commentary from those of you who played through it the first time, or who just feel like throwing in your two cents. If you want in, please send me an email, using the handy-dandy link at the bottom of this post.