Mastin Academy

[Micc]

A Guide to Focusing on Scum and Getting them Lynched.

Its a pretty dated article, but definitely worth a read.

[VysePresident]

I'm not going out of my way to avoid anyone but I'll try to remember. Still not sure if I'm going to play or not but want to figure out how to stop tunneling and how to convince people to Lynch people I know are scum. My last game I knew someone was scum and that person survived and won. That's like the 2 or 3rd time its happened.

If you want pointers, I'll be glad to PM you. I was in that game, if you recall, and I still have a pretty clear idea of what was turning me off of listening to you. I mean, I don't think you lack for anyting in the guide

Just an offer. Fair warning, I won't be rude or insult you, but I'll be pretty straightforward & blunt in other respects.

[Jake from State Farm]

at this point I have been insulted so many times across all my accounts I think I am pretty numb to it by now but yeah I'd love thoughts. I really want to improve my play and to be taken seriously when I try to lynch somebody.

[Ranmaru]

I had the same problem before. I usually tunneled but learned from it. Pm if you would like to talk.

[VysePresident]

at this point I have been insulted so many times across all my accounts I think I am pretty numb to it by now but yeah I'd love thoughts. I really want to improve my play and to be taken seriously when I try to lynch somebody.

Alright! I've got some stuff to take care of today, but I'll try to get on this ASAP.

[Jake from State Farm]

I am going on vacation tomorrow for a week so no rush. Won't even consider playing any games until I come back

[T S O]

What

would

mastin do?

[VysePresident]

Vote a Townie.

(I kid, I promise.)

[mastin2]

A Guide to Focusing on Scum and Getting them Lynched.
Its a pretty dated article, but definitely worth a read.

Fun fact: ABR was in fact my IC. I respect his talents and his wisdom as a scumhunter, even though my style of play vastly differs from his own.

But more on the topic, I actually encourage reading ABR articles, because they are often quite solid, this one included. It may be old, but it is still every bit as relevant as it was when it was written. You might not be able to take all the advice, especially given current site meta, but you can generally keep the spirit of the message--prod and probe your target of interest and make them the focus. (The bit about doing so with absolute conviction is probably a bad idea in current meta.)

Could you recommend some completed games which you would suggest are good reading for newer players trying to figure out how to scumhunt effectively?

Unfortunately not, for a lot of reasons. Among them being that a game which was useful six months ago might not be useful now, depending on the meta. There's also the fact that my recollection of games is abysmally bad. And even when I can name a game, I'm naming a game which was good for me--and since every player is different, that means there's really no way that anything I can give you will be of help.

For scum, it might be a little bit easier, but only marginally: I can tell you what I'm demonstrating with the link (for instance, linking to Left4Dead Mafia is displaying knowledge of situational awareness, and knowing when and how to bus), but there's no guarantee that what I link to will be of any help.

Players on the other hand, well, one thing you can do is look at the Scummies Nomination thread. (Scan through it manually; don't rely on the first post.) Read what the players nominating are saying about the players being nominated. It may be worth checking out the links, too, to see what they mean. (Or track them down, if no link is given.)

Generally, the players you most want to watch out for are the ones which you play with the most. As scum, you need to avoid letting yourself become transparently so to them; as town, you need to make sure you're

keeping

them transparent to you and that you haven't let them slip through. Always take caution of players you don't know who're on the list, though--they could be alts, giving you a nasty surprise, or if they don't get replaced, they may surprise you with their skill.

Really, the best teacher is time and games. The more you play, the more you can pick up on these things. For me, because I've played so many games with so many people, it's basically instinctive; I can automatically hone in on things. But I've played literally hundreds of games on this site, so it took a long time to get there.

A recommendation I have would be to play one large (especially a theme), while playing in micros and/or opens if you can handle two+ games at a time: the large game will give you exposure to a number of players and you'll probably find yourself not so out of depth relative at least to some of the other names, while continuing to play in the fast-paced micros will give you experience with games and players at a much faster rate than the larger, slower games.

That's really about all I can try to give you.

Serious question, how do I get better and less tunnely?

No easy answer for this, but an easy trick?

Drop any assumption you're right. In fact, it can help to assume there's a significant chance you're wrong. That openness may sound counterintuitive, but it will help you hone in on the "right" things--instead of blindly tunneling on a player so that everything they say is scum, you can pick up on the actually-scum things they've said.

But another key thing to keep in mind is statistics: there are more town than scum in a game. This means two things--first, you're more likely to be right on a townread than a scumread, and second, a player by statistics is more likely to be town than scum. So you shouldn't necessarily be focusing on what makes a player be scum; sometimes (in fact, quite often), you find scum by focusing on what makes them not be town.

[mastin2]

In updates that nobody really cares about, I just revised my Interactive Tells article, though it may require some tweaking the further down I go. (I got progressively more and more lazy as the fatigue from working for so long on it set in. Took me a solid two and a half hours to rewrite that.)

[Ankamius]

Oh, Mastin. I asked a while ago how I could improve my scumgame and you said you'd have to play with me as scum in order to be able to answer that question.

Now that you have played with me as scum (Mitlof) and several times with me as town, is this question a little bit easier to answer?

[VysePresident]

at this point I have been insulted so many times across all my accounts I think I am pretty numb to it by now but yeah I'd love thoughts. I really want to improve my play and to be taken seriously when I try to lynch somebody.

Alright! I've got some stuff to take care of today, but I'll try to get on this ASAP.

Just want to apologize for how long this is taking. I haven't forgotten, but I got a bit overwhelmed with life. I'll try to have something for you on the weekend, okay?

[Soren]

I've been a skeptic in this game. Many days I find myself realizing that (almost) every action can be interpreted as coming from both town and scum, which makes me sit on the fence a lot. How do I relinquish myself from these skeptic chains?

[wgeurts]

Try to figure out why each alignment would do said actions and on a whole then weigh whether it makes more sense as town or scum I'd say.

[Ankamius]

Ask yourself why either would do it. Then figure out which makes more sense.

[Plotinus]

how can i improve?

[ika]

how can i improve?

Your already skilled enough plot i dunno how you could imporve

(well maybe hydring with me might help)

[wgeurts]

how can i improve?

By just doing what you're already doing and looking at your past games and work on your mistakes.

[VysePresident]

I've been a skeptic in this game. Many days I find myself realizing that (almost) every action can be interpreted as coming from both town and scum, which makes me sit on the fence a lot. How do I relinquish myself from these skeptic chains?

A lot of the time, I find it comes down to looking for patterns in the actions. What's the timing indicate? What's the strategic value of making that push at that time?

Then you have to account for the fact that people don't always act strategically, and that comes down to learning who the players are as people, and how they think.

Actually, reverse the order. Learn the players, then account for strategy.

I might be able to help you a bit more later if you still want me to talk about the one game, but I only just got off a rough week at work.

[Soren]

Try to figure out why each alignment would do said actions and on a whole then weigh whether it makes more sense as town or scum I'd say.

Ask yourself why either would do it. Then figure out which makes more sense.

That's the trouble I have. No matter how much sense one side makes...I feel like the opposite can still happen.

I've been a skeptic in this game. Many days I find myself realizing that (almost) every action can be interpreted as coming from both town and scum, which makes me sit on the fence a lot. How do I relinquish myself from these skeptic chains?

A lot of the time, I find it comes down to looking for patterns in the actions. What's the timing indicate? What's the strategic value of making that push at that time?

Then you have to account for the fact that people don't always act strategically, and that comes down to learning who the players are as people, and how they think.

Actually, reverse the order. Learn the players, then account for strategy.

I might be able to help you a bit more later if you still want me to talk about the one game, but I only just got off a rough week at work.

I came to a similar conclusion. I tried to think of the game under inductive and deductive reasoning but rejected both because inductive reasoning (in the philosophical sense) does not provide us a means to make inferences from past observations. I can't infer that just because a scum tell in the past has been able to catch scum, that I can now infer someone is scum because they used that tell. This is because players adapt to the game and the game is constantly evolving with it. I rejected deductive reasoning (again, in the philosophical sense) because I personally find the premises of a deductive argument are usually fallible. So the solution I thought I had found to this was abduction, reasoning to the best explanation. But what is the best explanation? Usually the best explanation is the simplest one, the one that doesn't hinge upon numerous factors. But even then, the simplest explanation won't always hold to be true.

So after that I thought about how I read certain players. I am able to read some people better than others because I have been in many games with them in the past and so my reasoning skills are not subjected to as much skepticism as it would be if I were to read someone who I have never played before. I am used to this person, I can almost read them like a book. But then another layer of skepticism crawls in, and I reject yet another solution with the fact that this player, knowing that I can read them well, can manipulate me around that. But now that I am typing this up, I think that I am clouding myself with too much hypothetical situations, and things in theory don't usually turn out the same way in the real world. Perhaps I require real examples to help me relieve myself from such skeptical thinking.

And sure thing, if you have time of course.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Try to figure out why each alignment would do said actions and on a whole then weigh whether it makes more sense as town or scum I'd say.

Ask yourself why either would do it. Then figure out which makes more sense.

That's the trouble I have. No matter how much sense one side makes...I feel like the opposite can still happen.

I know the feeling. Sometimes this game feels like an advanced game of rock-paper-scissors.

[VysePresident]

@Soren - I'll try to get to you via PM tonight or tomorrow. Hard to say which because I'm exhausted, and playing two games, among other things.

For what it's worth, you're never going to be right all the time. (Heck, for all that I'm kinda proud of my overall record, I just had a game a few months ago where I literally got every single read wrong until the very end of the game.) The trick is keeping a clear head, and working with all the material to find the best, most reasonable answer you can. You'll only rarely catch someone out in a couple of posts. (Though I have done it, and have also pushed speculative reads more strongly than warranted for reactions. I find I'm semi-decent at manipulating people, and will sometimes use that in my Town game to pick up on who has an agenda.)

Maybe we can hydra sometime, and I'll show you my thought process. Plus, it'd just be fun.

[Titus]

Mastina, I mean this in the politest way possible but I disagree vehemently with the scum love bussing points.

[T S O]

how can i improve?

I had this problem for a while where I basically expected that 9/10 games as town, or scum, but in particular the former, I was going to single-handedly have to win the game by myself, and when this didn't happen I would feel disappointed and angry at my failure to do it.

I didn't really get over the issue, I just kinda accepted that I couldn't be the saviour all the time. As well, I was dying within the first night or two so often that no matter how well I played on day 1 or 2, I'd be dead and scum would probably just dismantle town anyway.

As for scum, constantly getting Guiltied seemed to remedy that issue nicely.

[Soren]

@Soren - I'll try to get to you via PM tonight or tomorrow. Hard to say which because I'm exhausted, and playing two games, among other things.

For what it's worth, you're never going to be right all the time. (Heck, for all that I'm kinda proud of my overall record, I just had a game a few months ago where I literally got every single read wrong until the very end of the game.) The trick is keeping a clear head, and working with all the material to find the best, most reasonable answer you can. You'll only rarely catch someone out in a couple of posts. (Though I have done it, and have also pushed speculative reads more strongly than warranted for reactions. I find I'm semi-decent at manipulating people, and will sometimes use that in my Town game to pick up on who has an agenda.)

Maybe we can hydra sometime, and I'll show you my thought process. Plus, it'd just be fun.

Yeah I think as long as I keep a level head and make sure that I'm building a case on reasonable grounds I should be content with it.

I would love to hydra some time, it'll be a great learning experience and fun!