Toxx Clauses

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Toxx Clauses

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:32 am

Post by Sleepless Assassin »

A toxx clause, which is banned on [Redacted, considered advertising?] forums, is when someone says' "If I am scum, I will <Insert something extreme that no one in their right mind would do>. It is banned because it is game breaking. If someone makes a promise to do something that they'd never do, they must be telling the truth and be town or they must be breaking their promise. When you look into a player's morals and character, and they don't seem the type to do the second, you can ask them in your first post, "If you are scum, will you buy me a house?". If they are town, uhh yeah sure why not. If they are scum, they won't agree to it. In a sense, it's a trust tell.

The reason I bring this up is because it came up in a game on mafiascum and I'd like to see Toxx Clauses banned here as well. It was 3P LYLO and scum was about to win. Well, a town player posted a Toxx Clause and ended up avoiding the lynch as a result giving town the victory. Here is the Toxx Clause:
Thor wrote:IF I AM SCUM I WILL QUIT THE SITE FOREVER AND EVER WHETHER OR NOT YOU LYNCH ME.
I will also vow to mail every player in the game $1,000 dollars and will offer yabba the keys to my car for outwitting my master scum plan.


And the result:
Me wrote:Ok, I've thought about it.

What Thor has done is what another forum (Something Awful or SA for short) calls a toxx clause. It's illegal there, but not here on mafiascum. The reason it was banned there is because of situations like this. Thor has put himself in a situation where if he is scum, he either finds out everybody's info to send them a good chunk of cash and car keys or he is known as a dishonorable player. Ok, one game and one player's reputation, no big deal, right? Here's why it was banned on the SA Forums. If every time a player was close to being lynched, we asked "if you are scum, will you buy me a corvette", we'd break every game we played.

I was pretty damn sure that I was going to be voting Thor, but at this point I don't think Thor is a bad/dishonorable/new enough player that he'd do this as scum.

Yabba, this sucks for you and the entire scum team because you were mostly likely going to win before the toxx clause. It may be time to ban these on mafiascum.

vote Yabba


And post game:
Me wrote:
This is exactly it though. Who would really send large sums of cash and car keys to someone over a game on the internet? No one. But mafia is a game based on the honor system. Ok, this is more true on Something Awful than on mafiascum, which is why I had to think about it. But the same thing applies. If after the game he went lol I lied, it would have been kind of a dick move in a way that I don't think Thor would do it. There's a reason why it (as well as truth or dare, etc) is banned on SA. It can be telling to the point of game breaking, like it was here. Yabba had me fooled. As I said for a while, yabba and thor BOTH looked town on that last day. The fact that scum lost on a toxx clause actually does kind of irritate me. I mean, we won, which is cool and all. But it feels kind of like a hollow victory.


I was going to vote Yabba. The Toxx Clause made me go against my reads. The game was broken by a Toxx Clause.

So what does mafiascum think? Are Toxx Clauses worth being banned as a form of trust tells?
Last edited by Sleepless Assassin on Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:02 am

Post by Oso »

Some of the things I have seen discussed in the forums since I have been perusing them after a long break, makes me wonder if the average player here on Mafiascum has lost the ability to think clearly.

Thor didn't do anything more 'wrong' than you yourself did by allowing that post to influence your decision. In this case, the game was broken by a player who changed his reads by considering something that had nothing to do whatsoever with the game.

The game is a self contained universe that starts when the Mod says 'Go' and goes back into oblivion once the endgame is posted. In the context of the game, nothing existed before the game started in that anything that can 'fairly' be used is generated within the game and everything else is 'off-limits' and nothing exists after it ends.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:14 am

Post by saulres »

In post 0, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Are Toxx Clauses worth being banned as a form of trust tells?


Aren't they already?

Although I see the game you're referencing is from 3 years ago, so maybe those clauses were added in later. Either way, they already are.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:23 am

Post by Psyche »

People make promises all the time in games. This one's not more credible than the others.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:23 am

Post by Magua »

mith wrote:Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, alliances, etc. Using knowledge from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another.


This falls under that.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:25 am

Post by Sleepless Assassin »

Ok, yeah. "Promises" make the list.

/thread I guess
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:57 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

Trust tells (redtext, pooky promise, etc.) are banned, although discussion does come up about it from time to time. Thank you for bringing it up, this can at least serve as a reminder.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:09 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Ok, yeah. "Promises" make the list.

/thread I guess

Yeah, those rules did come in after the fact, I remember when they showed up.
I'd also managed a scum win via a sig bet wherein I made a sig bet intrinsic on a given player flipping scum, when I knew they wouldn't. I lost the bet and won the game.
Feel free to judge my character on that one as well :lol:

I did think the general rule was probably a good idea, though I miss sig bets.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:08 pm

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

toxx
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:37 am

Post by Rob14 »

Already banned, but they're generally called trust tells here.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:13 am

Post by GreyICE »

Why are we getting a 2014 post about a game that ended 3 years ago
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

Because when Thor hurts you, the wound stays fresh. ;)
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:00 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 0, Sleepless Assassin wrote:[Redacted, considered advertising?] forums



mentioning SomethingAwful hardly counts as advertising if you're talking casual conversation. People mention EpicMafia around here all the time, SA is hardly competition for this site



there used to be alot of SA posters here when I first came here (actually I found out about this site from SA, I've been a goon since '03)
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:53 pm

Post by Sleepless Assassin »

In post 12, kuribo wrote:
In post 0, Sleepless Assassin wrote:[Redacted, considered advertising?] forums

mentioning SomethingAwful hardly counts as advertising if you're talking casual conversation. People mention EpicMafia around here all the time, SA is hardly competition for this site



there used to be alot of SA posters here when I first came here (actually I found out about this site from SA, I've been a goon since '03)
Ok, good to know, thanks. Wasn't entirely sure.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:57 pm

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

ty for this post.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:59 pm

Post by kuribo »

In post 13, Sleepless Assassin wrote:
In post 12, kuribo wrote:
In post 0, Sleepless Assassin wrote:[Redacted, considered advertising?] forums

mentioning SomethingAwful hardly counts as advertising if you're talking casual conversation. People mention EpicMafia around here all the time, SA is hardly competition for this site



there used to be alot of SA posters here when I first came here (actually I found out about this site from SA, I've been a goon since '03)
Ok, good to know, thanks. Wasn't entirely sure.
Holy shit did it just take you three years to reply to my post
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:44 pm

Post by McMenno »

isn't that his gimmick
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:16 am

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

its a good 1
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:16 am

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

wish mine was that good
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:17 pm

Post by Porkens »

Imagine someone did that at your house in a game night? Then realize that anyone who does that isn't fun to play games with. Think about how selfish it is to do that.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:00 pm

Post by Creature »

Like the way this is still a thing.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:31 pm

Post by Porkens »

It's important
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:56 pm

Post by smilefires »

It might as well be a goon check-in thread now.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:39 pm

Post by kuribo »

My post count On SA is still in the negative thousands from years of posting on FYAD
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:31 pm

Post by kanyeknowsbest »

ah, same.
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