Long term health of mafiascum

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Psyche
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Post Post #1025  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:57 pm

sounds like you need to catch up on the current convo
"quality" is a subjective concept that depends on the interests of the player base - actual and potential
the question is how to alter site administration so that the games in queue are more reliably the games our actual/potential player base want to play
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Post Post #1026  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:59 pm

I suggested some things about faster games in the other thread with poll about it gonna quote myself here:

In post 10, Frozen Angel wrote:I suggest reviving the blitz queue


In post 13, Frozen Angel wrote:Also, I suggest pullarity lynch games with a shorter deadline. I mean automatically lynching the player with most votes if no majority is achieved during the day! This will help faster games to be more about mafia than the wagonomics and buffs the town in a positive way.


In post 15, Frozen Angel wrote:A separate queue like blitz will help people who want faster games recognize them. If MS wants to adopts faster games as a part of its culture - which was my impression - having a separate queue for it will help it a lot.


In post 16, Frozen Angel wrote:72-24 for only majority and 36-12 with pullarity lynch are my suggestions. Both are widely used out of MS and people like them.
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Post Post #1027  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:02 pm

top down player-focus is a good idea IF that doesn't decrease the number of moderators we have. With new, user-friendly tools, I think that's a place we can get to. But as it stands, the more restrictions we put on what mods can do, the fewer people are likely to mod. It's also worth pointing out that at least for returning players, mod excitement does play a role in player engagement.
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Post Post #1028  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:02 pm

plurality
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Post Post #1029  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:03 pm

@Katsuki - It might've been the flavor of Fate's game that attracted a lot of people. I know that that was something that attracted me to it. I love the horoscopes!
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Post Post #1030  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:04 pm

In post 1028, Psyche wrote:plurality


yes! ty. It sounded weird in my head when I said it xd
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Post Post #1031  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:04 pm

yeah most of what im typing assumes a brave new world where modding is so easy someone can easily be responsible for several games at once
we're not there yet :(
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Post Post #1032  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:08 pm

Agreed on both points. I'm more optimistic now than I have been in a while though thanks to the work of others.
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Post Post #1033  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:29 pm

Existing of something like the blitz queue will advertise games with a shorter deadline and will allow players who get bored with long deadlines - end up flaking - or are used to faster games to have a queue for themselves. From a user experience perspective, allowing something to exist and giving it special notice/making a separate queue for it is really different. Everywhere on web MS is famous for its long deadlines.

I can name at least 100 players who might try playing on ms at least once if they see a good blitz game running here - and those are the ones I can name. Some new players might be leaving this site because the games are long and boring for them. Allowing variety and noticing it, will help this site a lot.
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Post Post #1034  (ISO)  » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:42 pm

In post 1027, zoraster wrote:top down player-focus is a good idea IF that doesn't decrease the number of moderators we have. With new, user-friendly tools, I think that's a place we can get to. But as it stands, the more restrictions we put on what mods can do, the fewer people are likely to mod. It's also worth pointing out that at least for returning players, mod excitement does play a role in player engagement.

I'm not sure this is true. Placing restrictions on moderators may actually increase the number of moderators, because I have a suspicion that many players who want to mod games aren't doing so because of a shortage of ideas / not knowing what would fill.
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Post Post #1035  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:41 am

In post 1026, Frozen Angel wrote:I suggested some things about faster games in the other thread with poll about it gonna quote myself here:

In post 10, Frozen Angel wrote:I suggest reviving the blitz queue


In post 13, Frozen Angel wrote:Also, I suggest pullarity lynch games with a shorter deadline. I mean automatically lynching the player with most votes if no majority is achieved during the day! This will help faster games to be more about mafia than the wagonomics and buffs the town in a positive way.


In post 15, Frozen Angel wrote:A separate queue like blitz will help people who want faster games recognize them. If MS wants to adopts faster games as a part of its culture - which was my impression - having a separate queue for it will help it a lot.


In post 16, Frozen Angel wrote:72-24 for only majority and 36-12 with pullarity lynch are my suggestions. Both are widely used out of MS and people like them.


Yes, plurality deadline lynches ought to be a must. No lynch should only happen if players vote for it. But a majoritu needs to acheived for a maj lynch to occur. I personally like 72/24 for deadline plurality lynches and 36/12 for majority lynches.
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Post Post #1036  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:19 pm

Well, as a new member, I believe the site will remain for really long. On my main forum, we're like 20 to play mafia regularly, and get some new players in. Some stick with us and play more. It's really a small community, and people have been bringing up concerns like this for years. But... the community hasn't really became smaller, we're growing and becoming better. I believe it's the same with MS, but even less near. To quote the head of FM: "It's like the end of the world: yes, it will come, but it's not soon, and people will keep talking about it until it happens." MS is still VERY big, and will survive for many years with a good level of activity. Unless the end of the world comes before that :)
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Post Post #1037  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:25 pm

In post 1033, Frozen Angel wrote:Existing of something like the blitz queue will advertise games with a shorter deadline and will allow players who get bored with long deadlines - end up flaking - or are used to faster games to have a queue for themselves. From a user experience perspective, allowing something to exist and giving it special notice/making a separate queue for it is really different. Everywhere on web MS is famous for its long deadlines.

I can name at least 100 players who might try playing on ms at least once if they see a good blitz game running here - and those are the ones I can name. Some new players might be leaving this site because the games are long and boring for them. Allowing variety and noticing it, will help this site a lot.

I agree with Frozen. I'm used to 48h days and 24h nights, and having close to 1000 posts on D1. It's literally another game. I talked to people on that forum about MS, and when I told them what was different, I mentioned the deadlines, and every player I talked to reacted like this: "Wtf? It's way too long, never I'll play that lol..." grosso modo.

That being said, I also believe there should be some "advertisment" for the longer games, because it's another formula, and I come here for this. If there were only "blitz" games, as you call them, I'd stay at the motherland lol.

Use the strenghts of the site while acquiring new ones is the TL;DR of my posts.
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Post Post #1038  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:50 pm

In post 1034, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 1027, zoraster wrote:top down player-focus is a good idea IF that doesn't decrease the number of moderators we have. With new, user-friendly tools, I think that's a place we can get to. But as it stands, the more restrictions we put on what mods can do, the fewer people are likely to mod. It's also worth pointing out that at least for returning players, mod excitement does play a role in player engagement.

I'm not sure this is true. Placing restrictions on moderators may actually increase the number of moderators, because I have a suspicion that many players who want to mod games aren't doing so because of a shortage of ideas / not knowing what would fill.

Seconding this.
I've always felt more constrained as a moderator by a shortage of ideas and not knowing if my game fills demand than by the time it takes to actually moderate. A more clearly defined way for players to say what they want would be extremely helpful. As awesome as more automated tools to help run games would be, creativity is the biggest constraint and I think a lot of other mods feel similarly. Those who don't are welcome to send me a PM if they're interested in collaborating.
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Post Post #1039  (ISO)  » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:33 am

I think replace outs are an issue that someone should look into.

I just checked and there are 2 active games on the entire site which have not yet had a replace out. Both are micro games.

I know I've been contributing to this issues but I've resolved now that anything short of an emergency will not warrant my replace out. But, we have fewer games starting, we have more replacements occurring, and we have fewer people willing to replace in, it seems.

Is this normal for summer?

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Post Post #1040  (ISO)  » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:37 am

replace outs are inevitable and often desirable
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Post Post #1041  (ISO)  » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:26 am

I think giving proper warnings to people who get repeatedly forced replaced because of low activity/for flaking might be a considerable solution.
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Post Post #1042  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:20 am

In post 1025, Psyche wrote:sounds like you need to catch up on the current convo
"quality" is a subjective concept that depends on the interests of the player base - actual and potential
the question is how to alter site administration so that the games in queue are more reliably the games our actual/potential player base want to play


Always felt like you guys have been beating the wrong bush but w.e
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Post Post #1043  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:45 am

In post 902, Ircher wrote:
In post 901, chitownmvp01 wrote:
In post 895, mastina wrote:
In post 893, ManateeDude wrote:As a person who started on other sites, a huge reason why ms is dying is because of the standard two week long days. I started as a ToS player, and I moved to the Forum Mafia Section there, the phases range from 120/48 to 72/24. Nobody wants to come to here with these phase lengths, I suggest that some games have shortened dayphases, because ms won't adapt otherwise.
With respect, deadlines of that length are the entire draw to mafiascum.

Well, that's a slight exaggeration, but not much of one.

I would not play in a game with a day deadline shorter than four days, at absolute minimum--and even then, I'd be miserable and underperform.
I don't play in games with deadlines shorter than a week, and a week is still a dangerously short amount of time if I just so happen to have a week where I'm incredibly busy/have a V/LA.

Ten days to fourteen days is the amount I typically USE. So my preferred DEADLINE is 14-21 days, as to not always encounter a deadline rush. (If I have a 21-day deadline, I'm never using all 21, but I will probably fully utilize 14. If I have a 14-day deadline, I'd certainly try to get things wrapped up by the tenth day.)

I stopped playing mafia elsewhere because mafia that uses those shorter deadlines--which I used to be able to handle just fine--I simply can't handle anymore.

I know I am far from unique in that aspect.


Really? I'm from TOS as well and I play on MU ocassionally where the day phases are less than half the time. I get bored if the phases are too long. I know many people, myself included that say that they will never play here unless the day phases aren't 2 weeks. So I'm not sure why you think the deadlines draw people here. Also, V/LA can be abused by not being on at EOD.

FYI: Comparing this site to Town of Salem is not an Apples to Apples comparison as they hardly attract the same player base.

2 weeks really isn’t that bad, and most of the time on this site, only Day 1 lasts two weeks. In some games, D2+ can last a long time, but for most people, they want the game over by the end of D2, so D3+ tend to last for about 3-7 unless it is LyLo.


I replaced out of my first game because I got bored.

Frozen Angel wrote:I suggested some things about faster games in the other thread with poll about it gonna quote myself here:

In post 10, Frozen Angel wrote:I suggest reviving the blitz queue


In post 13, Frozen Angel wrote:Also, I suggest pullarity lynch games with a shorter deadline. I mean automatically lynching the player with most votes if no majority is achieved during the day! This will help faster games to be more about mafia than the wagonomics and buffs the town in a positive way.


In post 15, Frozen Angel wrote:A separate queue like blitz will help people who want faster games recognize them. If MS wants to adopts faster games as a part of its culture - which was my impression - having a separate queue for it will help it a lot.


In post 16, Frozen Angel wrote:72-24 for only majority and 36-12 with pullarity lynch are my suggestions. Both are widely used out of MS and people like them.


I would consider coming if there was more faster games offered.

BlackStar wrote:Yeah, games need to be way shorter


100% agree

In post 1041, Frozen Angel wrote:I think giving proper warnings to people who get repeatedly forced replaced because of low activity/for flaking might be a considerable solution.


Good idea

In post 1009, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 998, chamber wrote:
In post 997, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I would suggest having 1 week days. Many people don’t have the motivation/attention span to want to play for 2 week days. On MU, people even bitch anout 72 hr days (my personal favourite).

I also would prefer 24 -36 hr nights to 48.

72 hr days/24 hr nights would be ideal IMO but at the very least no longer than 1 week.


Mods can put whatever deadline they want on a game. Just uniformly enforcing a 1 week Day would completely alienate a lot of our existing users and can't be the answer. There are logistical questions of how to inspire mods to run a higher variety of phase lengths, as well as how to manage users accessing that increase variety.


You don't need 1 set deadline that's uniform across the whole site. On TOS, we have 120/48, 96/24, 72/24, etc. Deadlines are completely up to the host. Adding more shorter games doesn't mean that the traditional 2 week day/48 hour night needs to go away completely.

In post 907, mastina wrote:
In post 901, chitownmvp01 wrote:Really? I'm from TOS as well and I play on MU ocassionally where the day phases are less than half the time. I get bored if the phases are too long. I know many people, myself included that say that they will never play here unless the day phases aren't 2 weeks. So I'm not sure why you think the deadlines draw people here. Also, V/LA can be abused by not being on at EOD.
Longer deadlines draw people here because there is a demand for that kind of game (in particular, from individuals older than the typical mafia player, as the general mafia player demographic is teenagers and longer deadlines appeal to adults who have full lives).

mafiascum is one of the only sites in existence catering to that crowd. Maybe, MAYBE if you searched around you could find another location with similar day deadlines to here, but they are few and far between. (And the few which do exist, universally you'll find had their mafia games founded by a current or former mafiascum player.)

Sites where you have games last for minutes (maximum a few hours) are common enough.
Sites where you have games last for days (maximum a couple of weeks) are the default used across the internet.

You can find those in any location. Thus, mafiascum would have nothing unique to offer if our default game type was that. (Newbie games? Other sites have them. Open games? Other sites have them. Theme games? That's the default type of game on other sites. Normal games? That's the closest we have to something unique, but other sites have plenty of more "vanilla" games so it's far from unique.)

But sites where you have the longer deadline are a rarity.

Sites draw people in when there is something unique they have to offer. Sites draw people in when there is something they can offer another site cannot. Other sites offer games which last minutes/hours and/or days/weeks. But we're fairly unique in offering games which last weeks/months.

In short, we offer a service unavailable elsewhere--and people who want that service thus come to us.
If we didn't have that service, we wouldn't have any service unavailable elsewhere--and thus, people have no incentive to choose us over any number of alternatives.

Also, challenge yourself. Try keeping mafia in your mind for the next five years of your life. You can quit it and restart it as many times as you'd like. Five years from now, see whether you prefer the faster games or the slower games. If you actually keep playing mafia that long, I'm willing to bet you that you'll understand exactly what we're talking about.


Well my thinking could change as I get older, but I'm currently in college. I don't play Mafia while I'm at school, so I can focus on my academics. I expect to do the same when I'm in the workforce and maybe join a short game when I'm on vacation. I might try playing a game here and see how it goes balancing that and work. My playstyle is to be very active and I like to keep up with the thread real time. I don't like having to read so many pages and post large catch ups. This site can offer more shorter games, while keeping the traditional 2 week day/48 hour night games running as well.

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Post Post #1044  (ISO)  » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:08 am

In post 1042, Katsuki wrote:
In post 1025, Psyche wrote:sounds like you need to catch up on the current convo
"quality" is a subjective concept that depends on the interests of the player base - actual and potential
the question is how to alter site administration so that the games in queue are more reliably the games our actual/potential player base want to play


Always felt like you guys have been beating the wrong bush but w.e

it’s the same bush!
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Post Post #1045  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:12 pm

Not really sure where to post this, but I feel like this site (and pretty much every forum tbh) could use a like button for posts.

Smashboards added it a while ago and honestly it just feels weird not having it.

Could already be in the works for all I know, dunno

I understand it might affect actual mafia games though. Would it be possible maybe to limit them to certain parts of the forum?
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Post Post #1046  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:31 am

Idk
Another forum I’m on had that functionality but it got repetitive or smth
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Post Post #1047  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:56 am

In post 1045, Akira wrote:I understand it might affect actual mafia games though. Would it be possible maybe to limit them to certain parts of the forum?

I've seen boards that had like buttons excluded from specific forums.

I think it's a standard feature in some software to allow that.
Does this post forward a scum win con, or do you just think I'm strange?

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Post Post #1048  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:12 am

In post 1041, Frozen Angel wrote:I think giving proper warnings to people who get repeatedly forced replaced because of low activity/for flaking might be a considerable solution.

^ This

Also, a "sub club" for players that are willing to replace in on a reliable basis might bring more interest in contributing by replacing in.

Potential qualifications:

3 months+ on site (to build up stats)
<15% replace out rate (hey, life does happen)
Recommendations from prior mods (on gamesmanship)

Requirements:

1) Each sub club member state how many games they can reliably participate in consecutively (ie, 1 large, 3 minis).

2) Members post in a dedicated thread when they sub into games for ease of tracking.

3) The Sub Club Mod will track members that are actively replacing into games (comparing game loads against the listed maximum for each member - typically if it becomes likely that a sub club member is losing interest in replacing in), eject those that stop, and promoting more.

Anyone ejected from the sub club for inactivity ineligible to reapply for 1 year.

---

This isn't to suggest doing away with regular players replacing in, but to supplement it for those times where it can be a challenge to find a replacement.
Does this post forward a scum win con, or do you just think I'm strange?

Strange != Scum

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Post Post #1049  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:11 pm

In post 1047, shortaru wrote:
In post 1045, Akira wrote:I understand it might affect actual mafia games though. Would it be possible maybe to limit them to certain parts of the forum?

I've seen boards that had like buttons excluded from specific forums.

I think it's a standard feature in some software to allow that.


See, I would like this post if I could :P

All the QFTs and the 'this ^^^' would no longer be necessary, and if I don't even post there's no way you would know that I even came back here.

Anyways, whatevz. I love this forum and I wanna see it do well. That's the point :wink: I think it's a very healthy feature for a forum to have.
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