When I Get Bored Sometimes I Investigate Myself

[reinoe]

I was just thinking about something that happened in a large theme...

If I'm a cop am I allowed to investigate myself? If I'm targeted by another investigative role and they see me investigating myself, what kind of result would they get?

I'm asking because I just realized in FakeGod's first Alice In Wonderland game there was a cop of unknown insanity and this could be a way for a cop to determine if they're sane/insane etc.

[FakeGod]

Self-targeting is generally not allowed.

Other than that, yep, Vi could have checked himself for his sanity.

[Vi]

I don't know--anybody else
Before I think about you, I Cop myself

[PokerFace]

I allow cops to check themselves sometimes when their sanity is in question

[xRECKONERx]

I don't know--anybody else
Before I think about you, I Cop myself

Thank you for posting this so I don't have to

[Majiffy]

I don't know--anybody else
Before I think about you, I Cop myself

Thank you for posting this so I don't have to

Thank you for posting this so I didn't have to.

[callforjudgement]

Unless a role specifically says it can self-target, it can't.

(Also, unknown-sanity Cop is normally more interesting if it can't self-target and you don't have Innocent Children or the like in the setup.)

[wgeurts]

Reinoe's been banned for a while now...

[saulres]

That doesn't invalidate the question tho

[wgeurts]

It's quite a necro as well...

[Majiffy]

Eh it's only like 2 months.

[Zachrulez]

Unless a role specifically says it can self-target, it can't.

(Also, unknown-sanity Cop is normally more interesting if it can't self-target and you don't have Innocent Children or the like in the setup.)

I disagree. It can self target unless the role pm explicitly says it can't. In a mafia game in 2015 it really shouldn't be that hard as a mod to consider that a player may actually think about the scenario of self targeting and to cover that in a role pm.

[xRECKONERx]

I disagree. It can self target unless the role pm explicitly says it can't. In a mafia game in 2015 it really shouldn't be that hard as a mod to consider that a player may actually think about the scenario of self targeting and to cover that in a role pm.

I disagree. It can't self target unless the role pm explicitly says it can. In a mafia game in 2015 it really shouldn't be that hard as a player to consider that most roles by default don't actually allow you to self-target.

[Zachrulez]

It's literally adding a short sentence to the role pm. "You can not target yourself." That's like 5 whole words.

[Majiffy]

I disagree. It can self target unless the role pm explicitly says it can't. In a mafia game in 2015 it really shouldn't be that hard as a mod to consider that a player may actually think about the scenario of self targeting and to cover that in a role pm.

I disagree. It can't self target unless the role pm explicitly says it can. In a mafia game in 2015 it really shouldn't be that hard as a player to consider that most roles by default don't actually allow you to self-target.

Depends on site meta. Some of the places I play at now have self-targeting, but you can't target the same slot consecutively.

[Zachrulez]

Any role that can benefit from self targeting should have it spelled out that you can't do it. Docs and Cops for example can benefit from self targeting. Doc for obvious reasons. Cop for sanity reasons.

Disagree with me that it needs to be put in the role pm, but if it's not and a player tries to do it, don't be surprised if they feel cheated by you when you don't let them do it.

[zMuffinMan]

Active roles should explicitly state you can target 'another' player (or 'X other players') if self-targeting is not allowed (assuming you aren't adding a more explicit 'you cannot self-target' clause).

This isn't difficult to do and isn't even tedious, really. It's just good practice to word a role PM properly.

Same thing with win cons that aren't mutually exclusive. Like, 'you're mafia and you win when you have a majority' and then auto-losing to a SK at 1:1:1 despite still being able to achieve your win con. SKs are awful roles anyway, but it's even worse when a mod doesn't have the forethought to properly design a win-con or give you a heads-up that there are ways you could lose despite still being able to achieve your win-con.

Word role PMs better. Or word rules better.

[quadz08]

Any role that can benefit from self targeting should have it spelled out that you can't do it. Docs and Cops for example can benefit from self targeting. Doc for obvious reasons. Cop for sanity reasons.

Disagree with me that it needs to be put in the role pm, but if it's not and a player tries to do it, don't be surprised if they feel cheated by you when you don't let them do it.

This perspective is very out-of-touch with current site meta. Self-targeting roles will basically always explicitly mention such - if it doesn't mention such, assume you can't (or ask beforehand).

[zMuffinMan]

"Site meta" really shouldn't be used to encourage bad modding practice.

Plus, assuming you can't only works if everyone knows this (which isn't necessarily the case for people who are new to the site or perhaps "out of touch with current site meta").

Word roles and/or rules better.

[callforjudgement]

FWIW, I've run setups (offsite) where Mafia would automatically lose to an SK if they crosskilled each other to leave a 0:0:0 setup, and this was explained explicitly in the SK's win condition but only implicitly in the Mafia win condition (by saying that at least one Mafia member needed to survive). So I don't think it's that awful to not specifically point out unusual ways to lose in a role PM, if it would spoil the existence of certain roles.

[zMuffinMan]

That's not ambiguous, though. I'm talking about hidden win-cons where SKs automatically win in a kingmaker situation. Some mods think this is a smart practice. Fair enough if you do, but figure out a way to incorporate it into either the rules of the win cons of other parties, or don't do it.

EDIT: Also you don't need to spoil the existence of other parties if you include catch-all rules in your standard ruleset.

[quadz08]

I mean, a role PM can't possibly spell out every possible contingency - you're right, I could add that one sentence to every role PM, but it simply doesn't make sense when the great majority of people and going to make the same assumption I'm making.

[BROseidon]

"Site meta" really shouldn't be used to encourage bad modding practice.

Tell that to everyone who uses godfathers.

[BROseidon]

"You may target ANOTHER player"

problem solved.

[BROseidon]

It's literally 1 word.