mafiascum Card Deck (Taking orders again! ~5 decks left!)

[TheWayItEnds]

On the 4th link (60-setups-variable1) all of the setup numbers overlap.

First setup should be 14 and not 19?

second setup should probably be 13 and not 11 on the large game?

10 and 15 are repeated on the third setup, im not sure how those are supposed to split.

[TheWayItEnds]

on the second to last link(61-setups-variable2) the first setup both options contain 15 players again.

and the bus stop seems to be worded confusingly. it gives x goons and x+N town for N=3,5,7 but doesnt suggest X values. i dont know if theres a better way to write that or not.

[mith]

I thought I had already addressed this somewhere, but can't find it. Anyway:

The overlap in player counts is deliberate. For a given number of players, it often happens that different numbers of Mafia can result in a "fair" game (though obviously with a different EV). For example, Nightless 3:9 has an EV of 50%, while 4:8 has an EV of 33.33%; both are considered reasonable, and in fact 4:8 is more common here, IIRC, and town does very well (the argument is that town does much better than random here because Mafia can't get rid of "good" Townies).

Since these are FTF setups, I also tend to allow for lower town EV range than I might otherwise be ok with - scum have a harder time FTF.

Bus Stop is definitely a bit confusing, but it was the best way to fit it on the card. The actually recommendation that will appear in the rules document will be quite a bit more complex - the setup lends itself to wide ranges of viable counts. Anyway, the idea for the setup card is that any number of Mafia is fine, as long as you have 3-7 more Townies. So if you have 13 players, anywhere from 3-5 Mafia will work (town EV is 36% for 3:10, 35% for 4:9, and 39% for 5:8), depending on what type of game you want (5:8 is much more focused on the day 1 lynch, and town would have a lot of trouble coming back if they don't win immediately).

Noted the "gamer" typo.

[xyzzy]

I'm not sure how easy it would be to address this at this point, but at least viewed on a computer screen, those colors are absolutely impossible for me to discern as a colorblind person; those reds and greens could stand to be far more distinct.

[mith]

This is a good point. On the role cards, the colors are only used to highlight the alignment, which is also specified in text. We're using these colors as a shortcut for the setup cards to avoid having to spell out "Mafia" or "Town" in front of every role. Note that the rules text will have these spelled out, so you won't need to rely on the colors, but this certainly makes the setup cards less convenient for you.

I'll see if we can come up with an alternate color scheme or iconography or something for those who would have an issue with it.

[callforjudgement]

My normal color palette to help out colorblind people is red/blue/cyan/yellow.

A bluish cyan would probably work fairly well as a town colour; it should be distinguishable from red by almost everyone, and is fairly inoffensive and thus would work reasonably for town. (Note that print colours are different from screen colours, but printers should be better at cyans than screens are.)

[callforjudgement]

The description of Vengeful confuses me. Surely it should say "Vengeful can only kill on day 1"? The current card says the opposite.
The 9p setup named "Less Pressure" isn't Less Pressure. It looks like a reasonable setup; perhaps it just has the wrong name?

Probably less important, but you have both Innocent Children and Confirmed Innocent Vanillas, which seems somewhat redundant. (Also, is 1× night-Vigilante a card that exists in the deck?)

[callforjudgement]

(I edited the previous comment after posting it because I had more to add. Bumping the thread to ensure mith sees the edits.)

[mith]

"Vengeful can only kill after day 1" - Shorthand for "after day 1 lynch". I'll have her switch it to "Vengeful only applies day 1", I think that should fit.
Noted on the Less Pressure duplication, copy/paste fail. (That setup is "Son of the Cop".)

The deck only has Innocent Child (x2); I'll have her fix the CI Vanilla setup. (Of course, one could use the CI modifier on a Vanilla card and get another Innocent Child, effectively.) 1x Vigilante exists, yes. (As does 1x Day Vigilante.)

I'll run the cyan suggestion by her. Ideally, she can send me both versions and I can just print a handful of the colorblind-friendly versions for those who need them. It may be as simple as globally changing that color; if it's going to require her manually editing every place where we use green, we'll probably just have to leave it as is.

[mith]

Yep, switching to cyan is no big deal, so I'll see about printing a deck of just recolored setup cards. (The brown for Werewolf may still be a bit problematic, but there is no ambiguity with that one.)

[mith]

Here's the revised deck list, for those curious:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

We've got pretty good coverage on roles (including modified roles) that are commonly used in games (plus a few oddball ones which are used in specific open setups).

[mith]

Setup card files are updated; here are the links again, in order this time:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... hqdzg/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... o2dTA/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... Q5YUE/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... lzdHc/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... JiUFU/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... VmQ1k/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... hpekk/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... xReWM/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... pfbnc/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... ZKWG8/view

And here's one of them with cyan:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B15tXB ... 5GU1U/view

I find that too bright to read the white text when I view it in my image viewer (rather than the google preview, which probably isn't handling CMYK all that well), but I'll print a test to see how it looks. (And I'm not colorblind, maybe it looks fine for those who would need this version. xyzzy?)

[callforjudgement]

The gamma on your images may be set incorrectly, which could what's causing the cyan to be too bright. (It's also possible that Photoshop has set it in a way that the image viewer doesn't understand.) If it is set correctly, you'd definitely want a darker shade of cyan than that.

It's important to know how the printer will interpret the gamma before sending off the images, because otherwise the colours might come out unexpectedly.

[mith]

"Printing one out should give you the best estimate of what it will look like. For some reason, I've had colors saved as PDFs or JPGs look very bright on the computer or my phone as well. A designer friend told me the reason one time, but I don't remember. For printing purposes, it is set to pure 100% cyan, which should be OK with white text. If you're still unsure after printing a sample, we could always add like 25% black in with the cyan to make it a little darker. Just let me know!"

[callforjudgement]

Figured it out: looking at the image file, the color space section of the image (which says how to interpret the colours) is using some sort of encoding that my image viewer doesn't understand (and thus probably yours doesn't either), and might well be corrupted. So most likely, each program you view it with will use its own color space defaults. (This wouldn't be the first time I'd seen Photoshop produce completely nonsensical colorspace information, for what it's worth.) If the image is intended for a print-CMYK color space, then it'll likely look correct when printed; that color space is an unlikely one for an image viewer on a screen to guess, and thus it's likely to put entirely different interpretations on the colors.

[Majiffy]

Woah hey look at this boner

Mith do you think we'll have these shipping before Halloween or unlikely?

I have a Halloween party coming up is why I ask. This would be rad to get people playing there.

[zakk]

Add a "p" to the player count.

"12p" will fit where "12 players" won't, and is more friendly than just "12."

[callforjudgement]

I prefer it with just the number, I think. Not sure why though.

[BBmolla]

I agree with zakk, 7p is much more clear than 7

[Majiffy]

Yep I agree with the P

[mith]

I considered adding a P, but decided it doesn't look as nice. We will provide a breakdown of the card layout (for these and the role cards as well) in case anyone is confused about what something on the card is conveying. At this point, I'm not going to have my sister modify every setup (again) for a style preference.

If nothing else comes up, I will be uploading files and getting the order placed on Saturday. Design director at the printer said the tuckbox is good to go. I don't know what the turnaround would be for the full order - the sample got to me in a little over a week, but the tuckbox and size of order may add a bit to that. Probably the earliest I could realistically be shipping would be Monday the 24th (my flatmate from England is coming to visit the week prior, so even if they get in that week it's going to be very difficult, but if it happens and you are throwing a Halloween party, let me know and I'll see if I can get a few out early).

I am also planning to send anyone who ordered a copy of the PDF for the cards, and can send that early by request, if you want to print out your own. I did this for a meetup last summer, and they turned out quite nicely (in good card sleeves with MtG cards as backing).

[N]

Woah hey look at this boner

Mith do you think we'll have these shipping before Halloween or unlikely?

I have a Halloween party coming up is why I ask. This would be rad to get people playing there.

Halloween 2018?

[Majiffy]

:fapfapfap: yes please if possible I would love to have mine by the 28th I can swing some cash for overnight shipping if necessary

[Ranmaru]

I'm interested in buying a few. (Will buy next paycheck)

Still think this is an awesome project.

[mith]

Files are uploaded, just waiting on a response from the printer about actually ordering the tuckbox.