LOLhammering

[quadz08]

agreed w/ pokerface

[Psyche]

which are two of the things I excel at

not to toot my own horn or anything

[kuribo]

The only time I state intent is when I give The Ultimatum, ie ""you got six hours from the time of this post to make my mind change, or Im gonna hammer you"

Otherwise, if one of my scum reads is at L-1 and I'm not already on the wagon, intent to hammer is automatically and constantly implied

[sthar8]

but do you wait for the claim

[kuribo]

of course, why wouldn't I?

But if the claim looks like bullshit, it's into the ground with ye

[sthar8]

hammer without intent before the player even has a chance to explain, to defend themselves, etc.

You are not the problem.

[kuribo]

never said i was

[BROseidon]

Also the way you read more casual/less reason/more gut based play is positionality and timing, which are two of the things I excel at so I obviously bias towards people playing that way

Who is this directed at?

Muffin

[vezokpiraka]

Waiting for claims is overrated.

If someone got to L-1 you get more out of him flipping then whatever power role he could be.

[sthar8]

You are part of the problem.

[vezokpiraka]

You are part of the problem.

The problem comes from people draging the game till deadline. Hammering should happen organically.

[Psyche]

is there any real reason to think that or are you just saying so

[Benmage]

But then everyone's bad at this game in some way or another.

Debateable.

[mastin2]

I don't read ahead, but I do move my votes around.
This can lead to some...unfortunate (but hilarious) consequences.

So yes, I can hammer accidentally, but I never hammer recklessly. (In fact, I am so adverse to hammering that I think I've only done it a couple times in non-lylo situations as town.) Nor do I hand out towncred to those who do. I

may

give town credit out if the circumstances read to me as being highly town-driven. I may also give out scum credit if the circumstances look like scum hammering. I also know which players LOLhammer regardless of their alignment, or if they only LOLhammer as town I still treat their LOLhammer as null anyway because nothing's to stop

this

time from being the time they're scum faking their town meta. (Especially since not doing so is going into a trust tell.)

That being said, there's an annoyingly-high number of players now that will instahammer L-1s. Now, I have no problem with people hammering L-1 players before the deadline is near. But players

automatically

doing so, even if it's on a scum lynch, is very irritating. Tolerable, since you just have to treat L-2 as the new L-1, but still an inconvenience.


(As for gut vs. logic, I continue to maintain that the two are halves of the same whole: you can compile facts using logic, but ultimately it is your own decision what the logic

means

, and that decision no matter how much you say otherwise is rooted in your personal belief, i.e., gut. You can have nothing on a player being scum other than "just gut", but you can

generally

figure out a way to extrapolate upon that read, using a little thing called 'reasoning', which when it's solid enough...becomes, yep. logic.)

[kuribo]

"gut" is nothing more than internal logic

If the logic didn't make sense to you in your head, you wouldn't be gut-reading them


Having sound internal logic and expressing it outwardly are two different skill sets. Some people only possess one or the other when it comes to mafia

[Muffin]

is there any real reason to think that or are you just saying so

Looming deadlines are a great way to "compromise" and vote a mislynch as scum.

[sthar8]

So?

[Muffin]

So no doubt that's part of why vezok feels hammering should happen organically and days shouldn't be dragged out to deadline.

[T S O]

I disagree with the entire concept - you'll hit scum doing it, but you'll hit a lot more town.

It used to be punishable by death, but now so many people doing has made it ...somehow acceptable? So now, instead of L-1, you have to leave it at L-2. Which can open up a vicious circle of "won't claim until L-1" but can't actually be put to L-1.

It's purely for the player's satisfaction, rather than -any- pro-town purpose, 90% of the time. The other 10% is you hammering scum who'll probably escape lynch otherwise. But only 2-3 people in most games will be competent enough to judge this.

[sthar8]

So no doubt that's part of why vezok feels hammering should happen organically and days shouldn't be dragged out to deadline.

That's daft.

[vezokpiraka]

I disagree with the entire concept - you'll hit scum doing it, but you'll hit a lot more town.

It used to be punishable by death, but now so many people doing has made it ...somehow acceptable? So now, instead of L-1, you have to leave it at L-2. Which can open up a vicious circle of "won't claim until L-1" but can't actually be put to L-1.

It's purely for the player's satisfaction, rather than -any- pro-town purpose, 90% of the time. The other 10% is you hammering scum who'll probably escape lynch otherwise. But only 2-3 people in most games will be competent enough to judge this.

Dude. When I started playing I never saw people at L-1. It was common sense that if someone got to L-1 he was instantly hammered. L-2 was claim range and everything else. Games didn't run to deadlines. People who hammered badly were lynched, but mostly the hammer was organic.

Let me drag up some games to show you.

[vezokpiraka]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2888496

Game was over in 30 pages. It's full spam and hammering. Guess who won.

[Psyche]

is there any real reason to think that or are you just saying so

Looming deadlines are a great way to "compromise" and vote a mislynch as scum.

but it sounds like a town full of people with this attitude have the same problem but a few days before deadline

[Muffin]

What

[Psyche]

"Oh, we'd better lynch before deadline or something bad at happen" creates an artificial deadline some time before the actual one.