"New" Replacement Order Rule

[Maruchan]

I just noticed this rule, and i apologize if this was already hashed out somewhere, but I am curious as to what brought this rule into effect? The last 5 or 6 times I've replaced into a game I've gone through and read the game, with an emphasis on the playerslot I'm looking to replace before offering to replace in, and yes one of those times the game needed two replacements. I usually decide if I want to take a slot after doing this, because if my possible predecessor has shat all over the slot, I may or may not still want it, depending on other factors. With this new rule, I'll no longer offer to replace into games with more than 1 replacement needed in case i get stuck with a slot I don't like, and I know there are others that take this same method of replacing as I do (I only started doing it after learning someone else did it).

What caused the requirement of replacing them in-order, because I was always under the impression that it was up to the player replacing in to state which slot they wanted, and if they had no preference, THEN this rule would take effect and make sense.

[lufan131]

I'd do it as: If you have a preference, then you get that spot, offered to the first person. If neither has a preference, than they both get a random one. If one wants, then the other gets the one left over.

[DeathRowKitty]

Replacing based on any information that isn't publicly available (for example, based on something you read in the game before getting a role PM like in your case) introduces outside influences into the game and should be illegal. Forcing players to fill slots in order eliminates one such case that's actually enforceable - you can't know if someone read a game before replacing into it, but you can prevent them from reading a game and then choosing a slot that they have certain opinions about.

All of that is just my opinion, but if I had to guess, the rationale behind this rule is pretty similar. If someone who hates playing scum chooses to replace into one slot over another, it makes it more likely that the slot is town if you expect the player to have read the game before replacing in and that's outside information that has no place in mafia.

[Maruchan]

Reading something in the game before you get a role PM is 100% publicly available, so i don't understand why that is outside influence?

[DeathRowKitty]

Your alignment-independent thoughts on what's happened in the game are not publicly-available information

[Maruchan]

But I'll have those after reading through the game regardless of which slot I go into, so then by your argument, replacements are inherently outside influence

[DeathRowKitty]

If you read the game before having your role PM, you're giving yourself completely alignment-independent ideas of the game (which is unfair) and you're introducing an out-of-game component to how other people should read you (e.g. Maru hates x type of role/x alignment and I know he reads games before replacing in, so he must not believe that he replaced into a slot that has x role/x alignment). If you were to read the game before reading your role PM as an initial player in a game, would you think that was acceptable? I personally think that would be a problem even if you then read your role PM before posting because it does bring outside influences into the game - until you know your role, you're not playing any role in the game and any opinions you gain on the game while not having a role in the game are outside information that you then unfairly have access to. If you disagree that that would be cheating, then you'll also probably disagree that reading the game before replacing in is cheating, but if you think that reading a game before reading your role PM as an initial player is wrong, well, you're doing the same exact thing as a replacement.

[Maruchan]

But, anyone who /ins to replace, typically goes on to read the entire game whilst waiting for the mod to send them their role pm, so they can catch up while they have a free moment, i thought?

[DeathRowKitty]

I dunno, do they? I don't talk to people who replace into games very often. It's not (technically?) illegal to read the game before having your role as a replacement so it's not like it's breaking any rules. But I definitely think it's a thing that shouldn't happen.

[Plotinus]

but there's no guarantee that you read the slot correctly in the first place. Whether you were /inned hoping it was town, scum, or something else, you could be wrong. it's harder to pick alignments anyway when you're not playing. or even you are.

But I do think if you're going to do it, you shouldn't talk about which alignment you prefer. and people shouldn't think of it as alignment indicative because:

you could be wrong
you could be trying to challenge yourself and hoping for a different alignment than you usually prefer
you could have just really liked the players in the game this time
etc.

like if join a game and say "aw man i was hoping this slot would be scum but it's town" people should side-eye you. even if it's true.

[Maruchan]

^^^^^^

[DeathRowKitty]

but there's no guarantee that you read the slot correctly in the first place. Whether you were /inned hoping it was town, scum, or something else, you could be wrong. it's harder to pick alignments anyway when you're not playing. or even you are.

But I do think if you're going to do it, you shouldn't talk about which alignment you prefer. and people shouldn't think of it as alignment indicative because:

you could be wrong
you could be trying to challenge yourself and hoping for a different alignment than you usually prefer
you could have just really liked the players in the game this time
etc.

like if join a game and say "aw man i was hoping this slot would be scum but it's town" people should side-eye you. even if it's true.

You could make the same argument for why it should be okay to ask for outside help. Someone outside the game that you ask for help isn't necessarily going to be right about anything, so it's okay, right?

In both cases, it brings outside information into the game and it's wrong.

[SleepyKrew]

lol @ DRK preaching morality in mafia

[DeathRowKitty]

Would you feel more comfortable if I were posting under 2 accounts?

[Ankamius]

I should start reading games before I replace in so that I don't get a repeat incident of replacing into the last remaining scum at L-1 and getting hammered 10 minutes later.

[Magua]

IIRC, the problem was from the mod side, not the player side: there was a mod (or two?) who replaced a scum slot before a town slot, even though the town slot had been needing replacement longer.

[FakeGod]

That's what they told the masses.

The rule actually ensures that the replacing-in player always get the slot he/she wants.

[Majiffy]

I think if you're being choosey over which slot you're replacing in as, you're just a douche.

Replace in if you have time and you want to play, and play the fucking role you get, baggage and all.

[FakeGod]

You're already doing the mod a favor by replacing in.

I don't see why you would be a douche if you rather replace into the slot you think you'd enjoy more.

[Majiffy]

The mod is doing everyone a favor by

running a game.

No game, no play.

[FakeGod]

How is that relevant in determining whether or not the replacement is a douche?

[Majiffy]

Because you're acting like it's a huge favor by the person who wants to play a game to join a game, and they are therefore entitled to partake in douchey behavior in respect to this favor.

It isn't a favor. And it's douchey behavior.

[FakeGod]

Why is it a douche behavior?

[Oversoul]

I selectively replace into slots I read as town from a cursory glance of the game. If multiple replacements are needed, I acknowledge that the mod may choose the slot for me.
I selectively replace so that I don't play as scum.

[FakeGod]

I selectively replace into slots I read as town from a cursory glance of the game. If multiple replacements are needed, I acknowledge that the mod may choose the slot for me.
I selectively replace so that I don't play as scum.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I'm curious to see why jiffy thinks that's a douche thing to do.