Epic Mafia?

[Fluminator]

I'm just curious what people's experiences are with epicmafia. I tried getting into it and the idea is great, but none of the games work.

I'd tried getting a good game today,
and the first one we all ended up being disguised as black guys named Cory and we all looked exactly the same. An oracle got yolo killed and we had a clear and I ended up claiming to the wrong guy. Eventually the clear ragequit because he couldn't tell us apart, and then a mass suicide happened.

The next game I got killed night 0 as the cop. Lol, broken setup. Why are night starts even a thing?

Next game was full of 14 year olds sending each other <3s and flirting with each other and wouldn't do anything. I was a cthulu thing who wins only with the cult faction and the cult leader got yolo shot and then I literally had no way to win, even though I was still alive.

The next 3 or so games had people forget they were playing a game apparently and vegged out.

The next game I was mafia and I literally did nothing but rant about how epicmafia sucks and I actually ended up winning that one because people with guns just kept shooting random people.

My point is, should I just give up on that site, or is it possible to get good games?

[borkjerfkin]

Outside of "getting reported for choosing wrong in lylo" I think you've hit all the major points as to why that site is a shit show

[Shinobi]

It's possible to get good games but the playerlist has been on the downturn for a while. It's getting harder and harder to find reasonably interesting/non-bullshit games, and most of the people there don't play logically which makes games mega-frustrating for those who try to play that way.

I sign on every once in a while to play with old friends but otherwise I don't even bother trying to play real games.

[Salamence20]

Sandbox. Anything goes.

Perfect for when you wanna turn off your brain to play mafia

[Salamence20]

In sandbox, you always get a PR, you get to yell and shout and bitch. Its fun for letting off steam or trolling.

Its not for serious competitive mafia play

[SleepyKrew]

Why am I in your sig

[mastin2]

In a way, I was an EpicMafia player before I was a scummer*. I signed up for mafiascum before I did EM, way back in October '08, but because I replaced out of 688, I was waiting for the game to end, during which time, I went to EpicMafia. I'm not sure if that's what I'd call the Golden Age of EpicMafia, but if not the Golden Age, it was at least the Silver Age. It

was

fairly good.

Mostly

, you didn't have trolls. Games could last a few hours, with people actually analyzing, in length, posts and checking the votes, both what was listed and by memory, to see how things had gone on prior days. Yes, hours, in spite of the ten minute limit on days.

Many well-known and established scummers came from there, in fact. Red Coyote is my go-to example; I remember back in my day that I was actually someone who helped vouch for him on here when he was new to MS.net, because I knew he was one of the top players on EM. (In fact, I think at the time he was THE top, or at least top three, points-wise.) It had a lot of the quirks of forum mafia, too, including gimmicky alts. (I have one, there, even! Which was my first mafiascum alt, too.) It might have been in a fast-paced environment, but it was by no means mindless quick action.

The setups were actually balanced, too, and competition was actually fairly good: it was competitive, without people throwing accusations of cheating left and right, or trolling left and right, just because you're good/bad (respectively). Fun, mature, responsible players.

You go there now, and you'd laugh if you think they're any of the above. It's just not the same anymore, not competitive, not sandbox. It just kinda...isn't there anymore, not the way I knew it. (Still have all four or at the very least three of my accounts--two primary, two alts with the second alt being the questionable one--though, at least last time I checked.)

*Incidentally, I was also well-respected on there before I earned any respect on here. On EpicMafia, I was never the best, but I was always among the better ones, to the point where I was usually an early kill when town just like the big point scorers such as RedCoyote. Using both primary accounts, even. On there, I was never a VI. My second account was

abrasive

, thus, controversial, but still respected all the same.

EpicMafia, in its own way, helped keep me on this site, because I thought of my time there and basically thought, "If I can have such a good reputation there...if I can manage to be so good there...if my theories are respected, if my gamebreaking is good, if my play is solid...shouldn't that be possible on here?" Most of the time, no, but sometimes, on rare occasions, the answer has been 'Yes', and that keeps me going.

[chamber]

The setups were actually balanced

I don't think this has ever been true.

[SleepyKrew]

Why am I in your sig

WHAT IS HAPPENING

[BBmolla]

black guys named Cory

GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY GO CORY

I'M YA MAN

[Salamence20]

Molla I got lynched as Celeb. No yak in the game.

Epic Mafia is best

[BBmolla]

Molla I got lynched as Celeb. No yak in the game.

Epic Mafia is best

LOL

[kuribo]

I've had a lot of fun on epic mafia


of course I play in the sandbox and scream at people, sandbox is fun if you don't take it the least bit seriously

[kuribo]

I've had a lot of fun on epic mafia


of course I play in the sandbox and scream at people, sandbox is fun if you don't take it the least bit seriously

one time i faked a guilty on a guy three times in a row. he got mad and vowed to get me lynched next time


the fourth time, he screamed and yelled so much that he got lynched lol


also fun: faking guilties on your mafia teammates for no good reason, claiming FBI agent as werewolf, forging peoples wills to read excerpts from wikipedia pages such as "the history of smelting"

[BBmolla]

sandbox is fun if you don't take it the least bit seriously

Just spam the

[mastin2]

The setups were actually balanced

I don't think this has ever been true.

It is for the medium. You know how balance for meatworld games is different than forum mafia, right? Well, balance for games in that environment is also different than forum mafia, so setups on EM can't be imported into here and work, because they rely on mechanics that don't work in a forum environment. (For instance, the Disguiser was a signature role, used in a fair number of setups. What does it do? It makes you appear to be another player, with said player having flipped as being you. For instance, if I were the disguiser and killed chamber, then the flip would be Mastin, chamber's role, died Night whatever. For obvious reasons, that...doesn't work in forum mafia, but it works there as an interesting role, on both ends: the wifom and paranoia on the town end's, and the ability to deceive on the scum's.)

But the setups back in the day were balanced in just about every way--their statistics showed over hundreds (thousands, actually) of game playthroughs equal or near-equal win percentages. (Of course, there was some debate when it comes to setups with third parties in them as to what constitutes an equal win percentage; some argued that it should be equal for all, others argued that the smaller roles should have an appropriately smaller chance of winning, and probably half a dozen other viewpoints but you should get the idea.) Running the math backed those win percentages up. Though certain strategies were used more often, to the point where standard setups had "standard" plays, the game was such that alternative tactics by all sides could be employed and still be valid choices in most cases, again with players duking it out in a battle of the wits. (Playing the odds of probability was something that they did a lot, where they weighed the options.)

The balance was

different

, but it was there. I haven't played many competitive games (god help you if you try to find balance in a sandbox game!) since then, but I have played some, and they simply didn't have that same degree of balance. They're swingy. They're uncontrolled. And the players aren't putting in any thought behind their actions, acting on autopilot, even in competitive play.

[chamber]

The setups were actually balanced

I don't think this has ever been true.

It is for the medium. You know how balance for meatworld games is different than forum mafia, right? Well, balance for games in that environment is also different than forum mafia, so setups on EM can't be imported into here and work, because they rely on mechanics that don't work in a forum environment. (For instance, the Disguiser was a signature role, used in a fair number of setups. What does it do? It makes you appear to be another player, with said player having flipped as being you. For instance, if I were the disguiser and killed chamber, then the flip would be Mastin, chamber's role, died Night whatever. For obvious reasons, that...doesn't work in forum mafia, but it works there as an interesting role, on both ends: the wifom and paranoia on the town end's, and the ability to deceive on the scum's.)

But the setups back in the day were balanced in just about every way--their statistics showed over hundreds (thousands, actually) of game playthroughs equal or near-equal win percentages. (Of course, there was some debate when it comes to setups with third parties in them as to what constitutes an equal win percentage; some argued that it should be equal for all, others argued that the smaller roles should have an appropriately smaller chance of winning, and probably half a dozen other viewpoints but you should get the idea.) Running the math backed those win percentages up. Though certain strategies were used more often, to the point where standard setups had "standard" plays, the game was such that alternative tactics by all sides could be employed and still be valid choices in most cases, again with players duking it out in a battle of the wits. (Playing the odds of probability was something that they did a lot, where they weighed the options.)

The balance was

different

, but it was there. I haven't played many competitive games (god help you if you try to find balance in a sandbox game!) since then, but I have played some, and they simply didn't have that same degree of balance. They're swingy. They're uncontrolled. And the players aren't putting in any thought behind their actions, acting on autopilot, even in competitive play.

I talked with lucid frequently when he first made EM, and played a fair bit on it back then. He often took setup elements (like fools) from existing closed setups I told him about and just threw them in other places arbitrarily. I really don't think the old days is when things were balanced. It's possible there is some mythical middle age when they were, I had no interaction with em around 2008.

[Bicephalous Bob]

MS classics like SCIENCE and Carbon-14 are quite popular in the competitions right now. They're pretty balanced on there because of the fast pace and the voting mechanics.

[Ether]

Town Win:

11.11%

Scum Win:

88.89%

The EV Project has calculated that the theoretical chance of a Town win for this setup is about 37.2% based on an ideal claiming strategy.

...God dammit, EpicMafia.

[Bicephalous Bob]

It's 42% on EM. I think this is partly because the fast pace works really well in combination with a small pool of suspects, partly because the voting mechanics enable masons to hold off lynches for each other until deadline without either of them claiming.

[chamber]

It's 42% on EM. I think this is partly because the fast pace works really well in combination with a small pool of suspects, partly because the voting mechanics enable masons to hold off lynches for each other until deadline without either of them claiming.

42% isn't balanced when you are talking the number of games played on EM. Should be looking to aim for like 48-52 probably.

[Bicephalous Bob]

I meant pretty balanced compared to the ms win rates. EM's most popular setups are almost perfectly balanced, albeit terribly swingy and very dull for people interested in scumhunting.

[Majiffy]

EM was pretty good for a period of time between late 2007 and 2009. It started to suck around 2010 and I abandoned ship shortly after finding this place.

[mastin2]

EM was pretty good for a period of time between late 2007 and 2009.

This was the time period I was an EM player in. Like I said, probably EM's Golden Age. I too left around 2010 right when things began to suck.

[Fluminator]

I wish I could have experienced that age. Ah well, maybe it will flip back eventually.