A dilemma I have thought myself into

[fdas]

Recently, I have managed to think myself into a dilemma. After thinking for a bit, I have realized that there is no viable evidence in RVS. But RVS ends when someone thinks they see something scummy and starts attacking. So therefore RVS only works if you think it works. And no I end up not knowing whether I should be promoting attacking people over trivial RVS things or discouraging it. What should I do. Also, after thinking even more I realized that there really isn't any effective scumtells that can be used day 1 and I end up sitting around day 1 doing nothing.

[Psyche]

Instead of "attacking" people over trivial things, just ask them questions about trivial things. Make sure your vote is on the most suspicious person in the game right now, even if that's not saying much. When you place this vote, be sure to explain that vote, being clear that it's not just a random vote, but also not outright lying about your confidence in the vote. Also, criticize people who engage in bad play. Continue throughout the game.

[Psyche]

Also, criticize people who engage in bad play.

Just heap it on them. Make them cry.

[Ether]

For RVS, just do what you want to do. You don't need to vote randomly, you don't need to vote at all, and anyone who gives you shit for it doesn't know what they're talking about. I'd recommend still staying engaged, though.

And sometimes just joking around early is actually fun! Not always, but sometimes. Off the top of my head, my messing around without a vote in Cops & Robbers ended the RVS pretty quickly, and I didn't have to vote anyone until they actually did something off. Of course, those antics required Fuzzyman to take the bait, and what counts as "off" on page 2 does have a pretty low bar.

Day 1 as a whole, though? There's plenty you should be picking up on that soon. (Even if you change your mind later.) If you don't have any scumtells that work that early, keep looking.

[Ether]

and anyone who gives you shit for it doesn't know what they're talking about.

With that said, having enough charisma to make people accept this doesn't hurt.

It's not, like, 100% necessary. You're not gonna get lynched over this unless you're

awful

. (At least on Mafiascum.) But it might make you the first wagon.

[BBmolla]

Just vote the person who is trying to be the most under the radar with their vote, they're probably scum.

Or fake a daycop guilty.

[mastin2]

Or fake a daycop guilty.

Daycops are

so

2010.

Dayvigs are where it's at.

[mastin2]

(Please for the love of god recognize that I am JOKING and don't use either.)

[Cheery Dog]

GUILTY!

[Vampirate]

GUILTY!

VOTE: CheeryDog

I don't think he's cheery or a dog.


And I don't see a damn ball!!!

Scum obviously.

[Cheery Dog]

GUILTY!

VOTE: CheeryDog

I don't think he's cheery or a dog.


And I don't see a damn ball!!!

Scum obviously.

Avatar changed without a location change.

[Vampirate]

GUILTY!

VOTE: CheeryDog

I don't think he's cheery or a dog.


And I don't see a damn ball!!!

Scum obviously.

Avatar changed without a location change.

This post contains nothing but wifom.

Vote is not gonna change.

[Cheetory6]

(Please for the love of god recognize that I am JOKING and don't use either.)

I just used a daytrack and saw that you visited someone today, got anything to say about that mastin?

[TellTaleHeart]

Recently, I have managed to think myself into a dilemma. After thinking for a bit, I have realized that there is no viable evidence in RVS. But RVS ends when someone thinks they see something scummy and starts attacking. So therefore RVS only works if you think it works. And no I end up not knowing whether I should be promoting attacking people over trivial RVS things or discouraging it. What should I do. Also, after thinking even more I realized that there really isn't any effective scumtells that can be used day 1 and I end up sitting around day 1 doing nothing.

I actually think the RVS is one of the times you should be paying

most

attention. Scum haven't gotten the feel for the group dynamics yet and that usually creates a little awkwardness for them at the beginning of the game.

[mastin2]

I actually think the RVS is one of the times you should be paying

most

attention. Scum haven't gotten the feel for the group dynamics yet and that usually creates a little awkwardness for them at the beginning of the game.

^Which is why I continuously try to go back to the RVS and look it over and see if there's something there I missed the first time 'round.

Unfortunately, this is not something which you can rely exclusively on, especially in games these days, because of (1) replacements**, (2) the speed/size of games making the line between RVS and D1 blurry and allowing scum an easier time to blend in, and (3) certain game environments are easier for the scum to handle. (I think one thing is that the increase in scum daytalk has helped them a lot, because being able to communicate with partners can help a lot with the ease of the RVS. Another thing which I think influences it--but I'm not sure which way--is whether the mod uses closed-confirmations or open-confirmations. That is, I'm fairly certain that the decision between leaving the thread open during the confirmation phase produces a different environment than closed, but I'm not sure which scum benefit more in. Probably open, which is increasingly more common, especially if they otherwise lack daytalk*.)

*Because open confirmation while scum don't have daytalk = scum have effectively limited daytalk during the confirmation phase.
**Note: the first posts of a REPLACEMENT can help a lot, too. Some scum players make themselves obvious, though don't go the other way. (Scum are too good at faking townslips upon replacing in.)

[Zachrulez]

Actually I think there is a theory that scum are most visibly scummy before they have a chance to get comfortable with the flow and direction a game is taking. I think there might be something to this as I get locked onto scum early when I play, but then later get diverted off onto townies.

[Psyche]

i guess the best way to test that is to compare average accuracy of early game reads versus late game reads
but i'd bet a lot of money that no significant difference would be present

[Antihero]

i guess the best way to test that is to compare average accuracy of early game reads versus late game reads
but i'd bet a lot of money that no significant difference would be present

i'll take that action

there's definitely a difference in early/late game strength for some people. i haven't actually measured it, but i'm pretty sure my late game reads are significantly better than my early ones.

[chamber]

i guess the best way to test that is to compare average accuracy of early game reads versus late game reads
but i'd bet a lot of money that no significant difference would be present

i'll take that action

there's definitely a difference in early/late game strength for some people. i haven't actually measured it, but i'm pretty sure my late game reads are significantly better than my early ones.

I'd agree that this is more or less has to be true.

[Aeronaut]

I have this problem as well. It's hard.

[callforjudgement]

**Note: the first posts of a REPLACEMENT can help a lot, too. Some scum players make themselves obvious, though don't go the other way. (Scum are too good at faking townslips upon replacing in.)

Fun fact: I've townslipped more as scum than I have as town. On none of those occasions was the townslip intentional (as in, I wasn't posting thinking "let's put in a fake townslip in the hope that someone calls it a townslip and gives me town cred for it").

[Elbirn]

I am absolutely certain that rvs is absolutely meaningless drivel and i am very glad to avoid it when I can. Games tend to start while I'm at work for whatever reason and then by the time I pop in its over. I think next time I catch a game at start, I'd rather claim scum or do something dumb and attention grabbing to start the game rather than go "lol your avatar is dumb ur scum"

[SilverWolf]

Recently, I have managed to think myself into a dilemma. After thinking for a bit, I have realized that there is no viable evidence in RVS. But RVS ends when someone thinks they see something scummy and starts attacking. So therefore RVS only works if you think it works. And no I end up not knowing whether I should be promoting attacking people over trivial RVS things or discouraging it. What should I do. Also, after thinking even more I realized that there really isn't any effective scumtells that can be used day 1 and I end up sitting around day 1 doing nothing.

I actually think the RVS is one of the times you should be paying

most

attention. Scum haven't gotten the feel for the group dynamics yet and that usually creates a little awkwardness for them at the beginning of the game.

I feel like I am awkward as town at the beginning of the game for these same reasons.

[Yosarian2]

IMHO, there really isn't a "random voting stage".

It's fine to cast a random vote at the start of the game if you want; there are logical tactical reasons for doing it, although it doesn't really make that much difference so you don't have to. But some people think there is some magical stage of the game where they can do anything they want and nothing really counts. There isn't. You can spot a scum tell on page 1, and switch right from a random vote to a more purposeful vote.

In fact, when you have less information, it might actually make sense to be *more* aggressive going after people for relatively minor things then you might later in the game; because first of all, why not, it's got to be better then random, and secondly it's a way to create information and to make people react to you. If other people think that they're in some magical RVS safe place where nobody is going to attack them, great, that makes them all the more off-balance and confused when you suddenly go for their jugular.

[callforjudgement]

On the rare occasions I end up in RVS (I normally replace in, at least partially to avoid it), I go after my top scumtell even though it's necessarily based on very flimsy evidence. You find someone you can attack for something, and the way people react to that normally quickly gets you something more concrete to go on.

You do have to take this seriously, though. If people act like it won't matter, then you won't get any information.