Scum reading people you like/enjoy playing with

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, so I've been burnt quite a bit recently because I don't like scum reading people who I enjoy playing with. I'm not sure whether this sounds stupid or not but I'm just posting this to see if anyone else has this kind of problem and how they deal with it.

Like, I always feel really shitty when I scum read someone I like and push them hard, only for them to flip town. So, rather than risk upsetting or annoying someone I enjoy playing with, I try to find anything that even remotely resembles what could be town motivation and stick with that instead.

This has got to the point where it's causing me to play sub-optimally and I'm just wondering how people approach this problem or if anyone else even has it?

[Faraday]

Ya. I got over it after being burned a few times, or just generally making sure I try to hold them to a higher standard of posting, I guess.

[Plotinus]

If this is partially about me, I don’t mind if you push me hard. I won’t be angry with you because from what I’ve seen you push based on ingame stuff and I haven’t seen you push me for playstyle stuff or real life stuff like being v/la or whatever. If you make a case against me, I won’t be offended even if you’re wrong. It’s “you’re scum but we won’t tell you why or put any more effort into figuring out your alignment because you’re just scum” stuff that would bother me[1], and you’re not one of the people that does that so it’s fine. Really.

[1] And it might be difficult to get anything alignment indicative out of my response.

“This game would be less fun for me personally if we lynched _____” and “I know I should nightkill _____ but I like them too much” are things I have felt and also said outright at times. In my offsite scumgame that finished back in May, our N1 kill choice was entirely based on “getting nightkilled on night 1 sucks when you were looking forward to playing so we shouldn’t nightkill the person who was nightkilled on night one last time, they should get a chance to play this time. also we shouldn’t nightkill anyone who this is their first game for the same reasons. now that we’ve narrowed the pool down, who would the mod have most likely given a good role to?” (from night 2 onwards we had rolecop results to use instead for our nightkills).

I think for me the hardest is when I have a friend that I know might get upset at being pushed but I don’t know what specifically it is that would upset them and I worry about hurting them accidentally (or just blunder into it and actually do). If I did know someone had certain buttons I would avoid pushing them because making the game less fun for my friends makes it less fun for me too and the response might not be alignment indicative or worse it might make them look bad when they’re really town. But trust is hard and scary so handing your friends a list of things to not do if they don’t want to hurt you is hard, so I kinda don’t know what to do or how to have the “how can I avoid making this unfun for you while still playing to my wincon” discussion with people.

[Vi]

I believe that Mafia is not a game to play with people you like, at least on a personal level.

[Vampirate]

I believe that Mafia is not a game to play with people you like, at least on a personal level.

I quite disagree.

When someone you like is scum and you are scum reading them depending on their play, while you are both enemies in your head. You can still admire someone's play and perceived schemes by yourself. Sort of 'so that's what you are up to ' kinda thing.

[Vampirate]

Alright, so I've been burnt quite a bit recently because I don't like scum reading people who I enjoy playing with. I'm not sure whether this sounds stupid or not but I'm just posting this to see if anyone else has this kind of problem and how they deal with it.

Like, I always feel really shitty when I scum read someone I like and push them hard, only for them to flip town. So, rather than risk upsetting or annoying someone I enjoy playing with, I try to find anything that even remotely resembles what could be town motivation and stick with that instead.

This has got to the point where it's causing me to play sub-optimally and I'm just wondering how people approach this problem or if anyone else even has it?

Instead of taking it like that consider it a chess match between friends and consider it a challenge.

[Vi]

Consider that a lot of games come down to "is this person really that stupid" and the answer is very frequently

yes they are that stupid

. Or you can substitute your own personal judgments about people in place of that example. Point being that this is a very easy game to make or take personal/ly.

[RedCoyote]

I believe that Mafia is not a game to play with people you like, at least on a personal level.

...wha... Vi... you don't like me? ;_;

To answer BBT's question though, you just do it with a smile! Frankly, I really do love most of you guys. And the people I haven't played with are just people I will grow to love eventually. I love how everyone has their little personality quirks and it makes the game fun to try and mesh with a different group of people each time.

As town, I do try to read everyone as honestly as I can. If I like the person a lot and I scumread them, then you just tell them how much you love them as you twist the knife in their back.

"This hurts me more than it hurts you!"

The game will always end eventually (unless it's Chess Mafia), so there's always a chance to communicate post game, you know? So I really don't let it bother me.

[Vi]

I believe that Mafia is not a game to play with people you like, at least on a personal level.

...wha... Vi... you don't like me? ;_;

NO

I jest

I'm fine with liking peoples' personalities 'n' such, but I'm really not up for having to wonder if someone I care about is manipulating me or if I'm hurting them for the sake of something as trivial as a forum game. I have to do that sort of thing often enough without Mafia. For similar reasons, I'm uncomfortable with playing with people I have to see outside the thread for whichever reason.

I'm willing to acknowledge that this is my own problem, a difficulty with separating game from non-game.

[Metal Sonic]

Alright, so I've been burnt quite a bit recently because I don't like scum reading people who I enjoy playing with. I'm not sure whether this sounds stupid or not but I'm just posting this to see if anyone else has this kind of problem and how they deal with it.

Like, I always feel really shitty when I scum read someone I like and push them hard, only for them to flip town. So, rather than risk upsetting or annoying someone I enjoy playing with, I try to find anything that even remotely resembles what could be town motivation and stick with that instead.

This has got to the point where it's causing me to play sub-optimally and I'm just wondering how people approach this problem or if anyone else even has it?

yeah i have this problem too

theres no cure*

just stop playing with them but be nice and all outside of game


*i haven't found one yet

[Fro99er]

It's fine until it gets to the point it's impolite or insulting. I've been guilty of this myself.

But BBT go scumread me anytime. I know we're cool

[Zachrulez]

With mafia you just have to always remember that the person you're playing with might not share your wincon, even if you like them and enjoy playing with them. You have to play to win, it's nothing personal.

[Ankamius]

I take nothing ingame personally unless whoever's attacking makes it personal. It's a game where this type of thing is just going to happen as part of the game, so there's no reason to take it to heart. If it gets bad enough, I just avoid playing games with them in the future.

[Espeonage]

I use my anger at the person betraying me to fuel my pushes.

[Benmage]

Ya. I got over it after being burned a few times, or just generally making sure I try to hold them to a higher standard of posting, I guess.

Don't worry we were never friends.

hope all is well holmes

[BROseidon]

Alright, so I've been burnt quite a bit recently because I don't like scum reading people who I enjoy playing with. I'm not sure whether this sounds stupid or not but I'm just posting this to see if anyone else has this kind of problem and how they deal with it.

Like, I always feel really shitty when I scum read someone I like and push them hard, only for them to flip town. So, rather than risk upsetting or annoying someone I enjoy playing with, I try to find anything that even remotely resembles what could be town motivation and stick with that instead.

This has got to the point where it's causing me to play sub-optimally and I'm just wondering how people approach this problem or if anyone else even has it?

Most people handle this poorly, and it's part of the reason I'm not really playing anymore.

[Alchemist21]

Alright, so I've been burnt quite a bit recently because I don't like scum reading people who I enjoy playing with. I'm not sure whether this sounds stupid or not but I'm just posting this to see if anyone else has this kind of problem and how they deal with it.

Like, I always feel really shitty when I scum read someone I like and push them hard, only for them to flip town. So, rather than risk upsetting or annoying someone I enjoy playing with, I try to find anything that even remotely resembles what could be town motivation and stick with that instead.

This has got to the point where it's causing me to play sub-optimally and I'm just wondering how people approach this problem or if anyone else even has it?

I have this problem too. Like Ank said, don't use personal arguments. I'd also suggest reading them for things independent of tone/personality and the like. People will be more upset if they think you should know them better than to say something like, "Player X sounds happy/angry/frustrated, they're probably scum."

[Ranmaru]

I don't take it personally when friends push me. It's all business and I'd still push my friends, especially if I think they are scum. I will kill them if I think they are scum. I will happily buddy them if I think they are town. (This comes from a town perspective) Of course, I might feel bad pushing them as scum, yet still I'd push. If I buddy as scum I'd already be thinking of how it'd muddle my towniness as town. (Meaning, I'd lose their trust when I genuinely need it)

Also it depends on our history. Some of my friends have fooled me and have even pushed me as scum and I will never forget those times. So it makes it hard to feel bad when I push them when I truly think they are scum. Now if I'm town and I mislynch them when they are town, I will grieve for them.

Also, I feel this helps me bond with them. For example if I pushed someone who was town, as town, I'd ask for forgiveness and try to ease up the mood, as that situation would have been tense. Since the game (might be over), it's easy to just be relaxed and all happy instead of just cold and cruel. All hugs in end game. That's why I love doing shout outs, and I try to be as respectable to everyone as possible. (Consider I'm the type of guy that gets along with everyone)

[ZZZX]

Scum reading friends can be fun. Many of my best pals here are made with us flaming the hell out of each others and calling each others scum until a random point where we just go 'meh ur town' 'you too'

It can be random. Otherwise nothing serious happens really.

Catching a friend is aweasom. Misltnching them hurts but you get over it

[Wisdom]

^this

I enjoy scumreading people I like and I will always push them first

[Titus]

BBT, I play for fun and to read people. Don't deliberately scum or town read me because you like me. That being said, we have a certain implicit bias towards people who like us and who are like us.

[Bellaphant]

I agree with Titus. I have a horrible habit at the moment of scum - reading people who's tone feels overly aggressive, which is probably wrapped up in societal nonsense and not anything to do with their role pm!

[VysePresident]

Honestly, I enjoy matching myself against friends - that's one of the biggest draws of playing, for me. Maybe I fool you, or you fool me, or we're both Town shooting each other in the feet, but as long as we can laugh about it afterwards, it's cool. It helps that I usually have a very high tolerance for people.

As for not wanting to call friends out on being stupid...eh, I find most of the world to be kinda dumb most of the time, myself included. It's something I try to handle carefully & constructively, but it's not a dealbreaker. It's not like paranoia doesn't factor into the equation, anyway, and it's hard to blame them for making bad decisions in those circumstances.

[Elbirn]

So if we can set aside our implicit bias for town reading people we like or are friends with...can knowing someone on a personal level make them significantly easier to read?

[Vampirate]

So if we can set aside our implicit bias for town reading people we like or are friends with...can knowing someone on a personal level make them significantly easier to read?

Isn't that a double edged sword?

Like if you could easily read them can't it go both ways?

Then it goes, well if he/she knows I act this way, i'll act that way instead etc.