What happened to Vanilla Cop?

[BBmolla]

Or change neighbors to roommates.

I can dig it.

[Kagami]

...

My personal opinion is that a player should be able to work out a sound strategy for playing his or her role as soon as the PM is received, based on a reasonable model of typical game design.

If a player has a role like godfather, which is essentially "you probably win the game if you draw a cop result," I expect the player to aim to be investigated by a cop. If the setup punishes that, it's a design error.

Not claiming miller in post 1 is just foolish, or intentionally aiming for a pro-scum meta. If a miller is investigated, the damage is probably game-losing. Claiming it also makes you conf-inno if there's a town rolecop in the game, and provides evidence that you're town even if there isn't.

[Brian Skies]

My personal opinion is that a player should be able to work out a sound strategy for playing his or her role as soon as the PM is received, based on a reasonable model of typical game design.

I think any setup where scum can work out a sound strategy to win just because of a role PM they received is poorly designed. It's also one of the reasons why many players dislike cops, godfathers, and hiders.

If a player has a role like godfather, which is essentially "you probably win the game if you draw a cop result," I expect the player to aim to be investigated by a cop. If the setup punishes that, it's a design error.

If the town lets a scummy godfather win just because they were checked by a cop and came up innocent, then that town never deserved to win as that's generally poor play. There's a reason godfathers tend to appear in games with cops in them.

Not claiming miller in post 1 is just foolish, or intentionally aiming for a pro-scum meta. If a miller is investigated, the damage is probably game-losing. Claiming it also makes you conf-inno if there's a town rolecop in the game, and provides evidence that you're town even if there isn't.

As much as I'd love to argue with you over whether it's better to claim miller in post 1 or not at all (I belong to the former group but that's because I'm not confident I can pull off the latter myself), I think that belongs in a different topic. Also, as long as someone who decides to go the latter route is playing to his wincon and being actively pro-town and giving the town reasons to read them as town and not be investigated in the first place, I don't see the issue. Mass claims should happen before lylo situations anyway.

[Kagami]

Just because you recognize how to play your role doesn't mean you win as either alignment, and drawing an investigation can be done in more delicate way than simply "being scummy." Cops probably shouldn't be investigating scummy players anyway.

I agree that godfathers are terrible, which is another reason the hummingbird wizard is terrible.

[Bicephalous Bob]

Godfather, Ninja, Framer, Lawyer, etc. should be on a separate whitelist for roles that are only Normal if the mod guarantees they're in the game before the game goes into sign-ups. You could also put lesser-known roles that make sense from a Normal design perspective on that list.

percentageless faith healers