Confessions.

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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:25 am

Post by popsofctown »

Think about it this way though. The vigs only get to shoot the second best answers. The best answers are always taken. The town collaborates and picks the scummiest person to lynch. Sure the scum can interfere with that, but they can only interfere a little bit without risking their own necks.

The vig, at best, can shoot the second scummiest player as was exposed by the previous day's dayplay.

Add onto this that the town continues the day until they feel comfortable that, as a collaborating group, that a certain player is sufficiently scummier than null to warrant a lynch. They will prolong the dayplay until the deadline or until they reach that point. Then they will stop. They won't keep going until the scummiest person in town AND the second scummiest person in town BOTH reach the comfort margin of sufficiently better than random chances to kill. Perhaps they should, especially if the setup is open or they have some other indication that the extra kill showing up each night isn't from SK or multiball. You can't just prolong games all the time without cost, though, game interest and tempo are often dependent on lynches getting reached at certain points, that's just reality (I think there are stats out there that megalong days don't produce more accurate lynch results but I can't remember.)

So since the Vig goes second, he has a harder time doing what the town got first dibs doing. It's like being the last person to place your settlement in Catan or Risk or whatever.
Maybe dayvigs do better.

It might be the lone gun IQ tax though. My best vig performance was when I was a vig in a neighbor group in a large. I think it might have helped with the "3. A person can outthink themselves" concern Vampirate touched on.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:52 am

Post by Ankamius »

A vig should be simplifying the game, not going hero mode.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:54 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

Are you a mastin alt?
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:12 pm

Post by mastin2 »

No, but he's a student, and that's advice basically straight out of my mouth.

Frankly as a vig, I don't shoot. Maybe if I'm a full vig, I'd shoot once to confirm I have the power to shoot. (AKA, the BROseidon school of vig thought.) Or maybe, if the game's going into mylo soon, and there's no reason to believe shooting town will cost the game, then taking a shot should in theory increase the odds by making it lylo instead of mylo. (Note that this only applies the night before mylo. Actually shooting if there's a no-lynch IN mylo? Uh...yeah. Not happening.) Otherwise, just far too destructive a power to use.
Dayvigs may have a little more utility, though even then, tread cautiously.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:38 pm

Post by ika »

a vig should always be shooting.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:31 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I would interpret "simplifying the game" as shooting scumspects that aren't likely to get lynched, or whose lynch if Town would waste a Day Phase. This would be targets such as lurkers or players everyone susepcts but nobody is voting.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:51 am

Post by vonflare »

A vig shouldn't shoot unless they are SURE their target is scum.

Play like you'll die if you shoot town.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:02 am

Post by hiplop »

In post 105, Alchemist21 wrote:I would interpret "simplifying the game" as shooting scumspects that aren't likely to get lynched, or whose lynch if Town would waste a Day Phase. This would be targets such as lurkers or players everyone susepcts but nobody is voting.


thats how I look at it to. Anyone who is suspicious but is like 3rd in line for lynch is who I look for
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:19 am

Post by TellTaleHeart »

The EV for 2 scum vs 1 vigilante, 6 VT and 2 scum vs 1 cop, 6 VT is about the same. A vigilante helps the town EV as much as a cop.

If you're a vigilante, you should shoot every night.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:22 am

Post by PokerFace »

If you are a limited number of shots vig, its ok not to kill sometimes.

If you can kill every night, you should!

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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:26 am

Post by popsofctown »

I think it's a defensible positon that there are maybe some complex factors going on that suggest you abstain from shooting as vig.

Me personally, I'm shooting every night.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:46 am

Post by Papa Zito »

In post 103, mastin2 wrote:Frankly as a vig, I don't shoot.

oh my god what
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:52 am

Post by hiplop »

I shoot always if I have unlimited shots! take out the question marks!

anyways, I tend to accidently base my reads on avatars. For example, I don't think I've ever not thought Flubbernugget was scumlol
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:08 am

Post by Ankamius »

In post 112, hiplop wrote:I shoot always if I have unlimited shots! take out the question marks!


thisthisthisthisthis

See a slot that's nullish scum on a lot of people's reads lists? Fill them with a bullet.
See a slot that barely contributes? Fill them with a bullet.
See a slot that has 20% of the game's posts? Fill them with at least 20 bullets.
See a slot that will give insight into the alignments of a lot of people if they flip? Fill them with a bullet.
See a slot that wants to get lynched? Fill them with a bullet.

etc.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:24 am

Post by Psyche »

the more people i shoot the lower the likelihood that the game gets to 100 pages
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:46 am

Post by hiplop »

Confession: whenever I'm in a game where the mentality is to always wait until the deadline to lynch makes me super bored. I don't mind long deadlines as long as they dont feel unneccessary. when a lynch candidate is basically agreed upon I think the day should end in most cases
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:38 am

Post by Banakai »

When I get vig I'm gonna shoot cause I got vig and I'm gonna play vig damn it
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:38 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Yeah, if you're a vig, you really should shoot. I mean, town getting two lynhes every day instead of one dramatically increases their odds of winning.

Just, you know, don't be stupid. If everyone else thinks that X is town and you're paranoid about it, then you're probably wrong. Being a vig tends to make you paranoid and think your judgement is better then it really is.

Also, vigs always seem to shoot me when I'm town. Really, only when I'm town; I've never been vigged when scum, only when town.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:58 pm

Post by mastin2 »

In post 111, Papa Zito wrote:
In post 103, mastin2 wrote:Frankly as a vig, I don't shoot.
oh my god what
Have you
seen
my accuracy with reads?

...I rest my case. :P
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:42 am

Post by PokerFace »

In post 113, Ankamius wrote:
In post 112, hiplop wrote:I shoot always if I have unlimited shots! take out the question marks!


thisthisthisthisthis

See a slot that's nullish scum on a lot of people's reads lists? Fill them with a bullet.
See a slot that barely contributes? Fill them with a bullet.
See a slot that has 20% of the game's posts? Fill them with at least 20 bullets.
See a slot that will give insight into the alignments of a lot of people if they flip? Fill them with a bullet.
See a slot that wants to get lynched? Fill them with a bullet.

etc.

See a player that always trolls, ruins games, claims scum, lies as town, or purposely plays anti town? Kill them night 0
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:45 am

Post by Accountant »

Nothing wrong with lying as town if you have a valid reason.

Personally, I would just shoot that one person you are convinced is scummy but who somehow weasels his slimy way out of every attempt of yours to lynch him >:(
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:13 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

^I'd do that if there was no target with a clear benefit to the Town overall.

Also, if there were multiple people whose death would benefit Town, I'd kill the one I personally think is more likely to be scum.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:52 am

Post by Antihero »

In post 120, Accountant wrote:Nothing wrong with lying as town if you have a valid reason.

you don't have a valid reason
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:14 pm

Post by catboi »

What if I really want to lynch someone, though~
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:35 pm

Post by Antihero »

that's the worst reason of them all

...and make no mistake. when i say you don't have a valid reason, i mean YOU PERSONALLY, hypothetical reader who's actually thinking about lying to get a lynch. i'm looking you straight in the eyes and telling you that your reasons for even thinking about doing that are crap. now i'm leaning over and whispering in your ear that you're not all that and you should get over yourself.
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