Replacing In - Catching Up

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Replacing In - Catching Up

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:14 am

Post by St Constantine the Hermit »

I noticed there are two different communities in mafia. One community is tolerant of players replacing in without reading the whole game previous, and the other community is highly critical of replacing in and not reading the whole game previous.

There are good arguments for both, but I am with the community that is okay with players replacing in and not reading the whole game.

My reasoning is that

1. Most posts are fluff or distracting anyways
2. In most games, it is a highly difficult and unfair task to catch up
3. It is perfectly possible to scumhunt without reading the entire game (and usually what I do is go back and ISO someone who looks scum after I replace in)
4. It is much easier for a cooperative players to recap their cases and point out important events for replace ins
5. In communities where people are harassed for not having laser focus, there are usually less replace ins
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:18 am

Post by St Constantine the Hermit »

One more bonus topic I would tag on to this thread, is that when you have such long mafia days on this site, the amount of prodding can be a little ridiculous. Even worst is how aggressive some players can get when another player is not posting 10 times a day.

It seems like a player can be tagged a lurker for posting less in a game with a lot of activity, but in a game with a normal amount of activity the same player would not be labelled a lurker. I think the criteria for lurking is probably higher for the "large flavor" community over other communities, and from what I have heard, that is the reason why a lot of MS members do not like playing there (among other reasons).
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:23 am

Post by wgeurts »

In post 0, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:I noticed there are two different communities in mafia. One community is tolerant of players replacing in without reading the whole game previous, and the other community is highly critical of replacing in and not reading the whole game previous.

There are good arguments for both, but I am with the community that is okay with players replacing in and not reading the whole game.

My reasoning is that

1. Most posts are fluff or distracting anyways
2. In most games, it is a highly difficult and unfair task to catch up
3. It is perfectly possible to scumhunt without reading the entire game (and usually what I do is go back and ISO someone who looks scum after I replace in)
4. It is much easier for a cooperative players to recap their cases and point out important events for replace ins
5. In communities where people are harassed for not having laser focus, there are usually less replace ins

I'd be in the second camp:
1. Not all posts are fluff and there is evidence, ignoring it is like cops saying they won't check a terrorist suspect's phone-calls because most of them won't be related to what they want. It's just lazy and is basically refusing to use effort to raise your chances of winning, you could argue that it's anti-town to a certain extent because of this. If you don't want to read, don't replace in honestly.
2. How is it unfair? Replacing in is a choice, part of that choice is doing the best you can as a replacement and that involves reading up. Once again, if you don't want to do this don't replace into a game. It's like becoming a chef but refusing to clean up because it's unfair, see what I mean?
If replacing is too much effort for you don't do it!
3. But you can use more evidence if you do, it's doing half the work and not using your fullest potential. Lazy.
4. Which a replacement would then not be able to understand as they don't know what's happened? And it's lazy, "let others do the work". Replacing in is work so once again, if you don't want to don't replace in.
5. ?
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:08 am

Post by VysePresident »

1: I'm a mix. If I have time, I won't just read the thread, I'll reread it a bunch of times, take notes, and just generally immerse myself in it completely. I prefer to be able to have a rough feel for what everyone said, and where they said it. Since I've started having more real stuff to worry about, and since I came to MS, where people post significantly faster than I was previously used to, this hasn't happened much. I still can't bring myself to not read through a thread, because I feel like I need to have all the information available, but I try to involve myself a little earlier. I don't view not reading the thread as a major crime, particularly in others who aren't quite as obsessive as I can be.

2 & 3: Replacing in is a combination of a favor & a responsibility. I'm willing to cut people leeway if they don't want to read the full thread as long as they were involved. (though I hope they'd read anything I pushed them to.) I'll have a lot more respect for them if they do, or at least try, and I think it's more useful if they do.

4: I actually like getting recaps if I can, even if I'm reading through the thread, just because it gives me a view what the players consider important.

5: Pressuring is part of the game. I'm not entirely fond of how it's handled in some cases, (I know the community scares most of my friends away) but as a general rule, no, it's not a bad thing. I also play in a community that had much more easy-going guidelines, and pretty much everybody was happy when we started moving away from that.
Last edited by VysePresident on Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:00 am

Post by Antihero »

In post 0, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:1. Most posts are fluff or distracting anyways
2. In most games, it is a highly difficult and unfair task to catch up
3. It is perfectly possible to scumhunt without reading the entire game (and usually what I do is go back and ISO someone who looks scum after I replace in)
4. It is much easier for a cooperative players to recap their cases and point out important events for replace ins
5. In communities where people are harassed for not having laser focus, there are usually less replace ins


i agree with points 1 and 3 just in general (not just for replace ins)
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:30 am

Post by Ankamius »

If I replace into a game (more of my games are replaceins than not, so I do this a lot), most of the time I'll treat my replace in as the first post in the thread except when I have something specific I'm looking for.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:28 am

Post by Ythan »

Ignoring your predecessor's posts is anti-town, and this should be obvious enough that it becomes even more anti-town.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:48 am

Post by callforjudgement »

It is always worth asking for recaps even if you read the entire thread, because seeing what people leave in and leave out of a recap is a useful scumhunting tool in its own right.

(Maybe as an extension to this, I should ask players for recaps even when I'm
not
replacing in.)
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:03 pm

Post by SilverWolf »

I read the game or I don't replace. If it's a long game, I might skip the beginning RVS stuff and I usually ask if there is anything important I should know when I join. I usually ISO people and read the areas where important things happen-claims and lynches and whatnot, more thoroughly than the rest of it and I oftentimes will ISO the mod to look a VC's if I feel that's warranted-flips have happened, etc.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:16 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

I think it's important to have a current and caught up read of the game, however when you start posting in the game you should be emphasizing your current stance in the game, not any you had earlier while catching up that are no longer relevant. (Look for this as this kind of fluff is easy for scum to stick in a 'catch up post')
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:14 pm

Post by Wisdom »

I've tried replacing in and reading nothing, or reading just parts of the game. I couldn't. I ended up reading the whole thing. But this has to do with me having the need to look through all possible sources that can help me deal with the game as best as I can. I figure, if there was a post that could help me figure someone out, why miss it?

As for what I expect from others? I prefer them reading everything, because it's frustrating for me having people not fully understanding my points because they missed posts or misread others (this extends to people who aren't replacements too). But other than that? If they think they can play, scumhunt, produce content without reading the game, sure, go ahead. It's certainly doable.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:24 am

Post by chamber »

Do the people in the not backread camp not reread their games multiple times? If I live to endgame there is a decent chance I've read everything 3-5 times.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:35 am

Post by Ankamius »

I rarely read everything once unless I was in the game since the beginning. Farthest I go is usually VCA
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:42 am

Post by VysePresident »

In post 10, Wisdom wrote:I've tried replacing in and reading nothing, or reading just parts of the game. I couldn't. I ended up reading the whole thing. But this has to do with me having the need to look through all possible sources that can help me deal with the game as best as I can. I figure, if there was a post that could help me figure someone out, why miss it?

As for what I expect from others? I prefer them reading everything, because it's frustrating for me having people not fully understanding my points because they missed posts or misread others (this extends to people who aren't replacements too). But other than that? If they think they can play, scumhunt, produce content without reading the game, sure, go ahead. It's certainly doable.


This is definitely something I can agree with. The funny thing is, playstyle-wise, I think you're almost the choleric version of me.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:25 am

Post by Ythan »

In post 11, chamber wrote:Do the people in the not backread camp not reread their games multiple times? If I live to endgame there is a decent chance I've read everything 3-5 times.

This. Even in a game I play from the start there's no way I'm not going to end up rereading everything a few times before it's over.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:36 pm

Post by N »

read it all but pretend you didn't
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:25 pm

Post by Bacde »

haven't read the thread yet whats up guys whats the consensus do we have to catch up on threads or not???
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:38 pm

Post by Accountant »

Why would you replace in a game if you aren't going to re-read?

Maybe you shouldn't replace in a game if you don't like to re-read and catch up on posts. Anyone that does this is very anti-town in my opinion.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:57 pm

Post by Ankamius »

I've noticed that my reads are almost always completely off when I read all the posts from before my replacement or when I'm doing a big catchup post, so not reading generally reduces the chance I'm going to just be a trololol LOUDLY WRONG town slot (and makes me harder to catch as scum, I guess) and lets me parse the stuff I need to know later.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:50 pm

Post by Psyche »

for me it's not so important that the person read the whole thread than that they don't spend their time in the game imitating an amateur football player who refuses to use his feet
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:52 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 14, Ythan wrote:
In post 11, chamber wrote:Do the people in the not backread camp not reread their games multiple times? If I live to endgame there is a decent chance I've read everything 3-5 times.

This. Even in a game I play from the start there's no way I'm not going to end up rereading everything a few times before it's over.


everytime i do anything close to this i feel ashamed and neurotic and disappointed in my life choices
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:30 pm

Post by Ythan »

In post 20, Psyche wrote:
In post 14, Ythan wrote:
In post 11, chamber wrote:Do the people in the not backread camp not reread their games multiple times? If I live to endgame there is a decent chance I've read everything 3-5 times.

This. Even in a game I play from the start there's no way I'm not going to end up rereading everything a few times before it's over.


everytime i do anything close to this i feel ashamed and neurotic and disappointed in my life choices

How long does it take you to read a page of posts?
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:37 pm

Post by Psyche »

probably ten thousand times longer than it takes you ythan
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:08 pm

Post by Ythan »

I'm not trying to be mean.

But do you really go through a game without reading back over the thread? I expect you don't.
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:59 pm

Post by Espeonage »

In post 11, chamber wrote:Do the people in the not backread camp not reread their games multiple times? If I live to endgame there is a decent chance I've read everything 3-5 times.


If I am at endgame chances are I've read maybe 70% of the thread once.

If I replace in, I'll look at my iso, ask for peeps to fill me, then go back maybe a page or two. The main advantage of someone replacing in is not hacing to deal with the bias glasses that other players have put on the thread and you can come in and shake shit up.
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