Making fake claims

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:22 am

Post by Faraday »

Anyone who falls for it in lylo is just being dumb, probably mostly not worth it.
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:41 am

Post by Plotinus »

and claiming it before lylo is a good way to get policy lynched
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:47 am

Post by vonflare »

In post 24, Postie wrote:What are people's thoughts on claiming survivor as town? I've heard it can be useful as a lylo gambit, but what about at other points in the game?


claiming survivor as lynchproof town can sometimes work because the scum won't want to kill a survivor. Then you can trick them into claiming at lylo and vote them with the other townie.
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:32 am

Post by quadz08 »

In post 26, Plotinus wrote:and claiming it before lylo is a good way to get policy lynched

policy lynch isn't really the right term here, because lynching a claimed non-town player is very nearly always the right move from an in-game perspective
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:45 am

Post by Plotinus »

that's true. i didn't mean it in a disparaging sense. meant something like automatically lynched.

lynched the way you lynch a cop guilty even if it could be a miller or it could be a bus driver or it could be a VI townie fake claiming a guilty for no reason.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:36 am

Post by kuribo »

I will always and forever regardless of my alignment push the lynch on any third party

Survivors are too wild card to trust
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:44 pm

Post by tn5421 »

It's a bad thing when the OP refers to an ongoing
post
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:42 am

Post by BROseidon »

In post 1, talah wrote:If you're town you never never never fakeclaim.
Never.

I thought this thread was about scum fake-claiming.


False. There are times when it's appropriate as town to make fake claims. Those times are highly contextual, though, and I'd venture that 90% of players aren't strong enough technical players to differentiate the times when it's a good idea from when it's absolutely terrible.
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:43 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

Lying means adding more confusion to the game and therefore harming the investigation / analysis. Unless you have a
really good
reason to lie, then generally the costs outweigh the benefits.
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:47 am

Post by BROseidon »

In post 33, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Lying means adding more confusion to the game and therefore harming the investigation / analysis. Unless you have a
really good
reason to lie, then generally the costs outweigh the benefits.


You're an innocent child. You claim miller in your first post day 1 so that a cop doesn't waste an investigation on you.

You're a JOAT with a vig shot. You claim 1-shot vig to hide the fact that you can do additional things.

You're a hider. You claim weak visitor to bait scum into trying to NK you.

You're a doctor, you claim VT because duh

etc, etc
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:47 am

Post by BROseidon »

Generally speaking, if you have a confirmable town role, you can get away with doing a lot more creative stuff.
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:15 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

In post 34, BROseidon wrote:
In post 33, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Lying means adding more confusion to the game and therefore harming the investigation / analysis. Unless you have a
really good
reason to lie, then generally the costs outweigh the benefits.


You're an innocent child. You claim miller in your first post day 1 so that a cop doesn't waste an investigation on you.

You're a JOAT with a vig shot. You claim 1-shot vig to hide the fact that you can do additional things.

You're a hider. You claim weak visitor to bait scum into trying to NK you.

You're a doctor, you claim VT because duh

etc, etc
Ah. Yes. I still have to get acquainted with all the different roles on this site. Some of them are unbelievably complex.

But many roles do not require lying, though. I have played quite some games (not here) and rarely has there been any need to justify lying, even from more experienced players. MafiaScum seems very different from what I have experienced, that is true.
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:16 am

Post by vonflare »

In post 36, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Ah. Yes. I still have to get acquainted with all the different roles on this site. Some of them are unbelievably complex.



the cool thing is, there are INFINITE roles on this site.
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:21 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

In post 37, vonflare wrote:
In post 36, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Ah. Yes. I still have to get acquainted with all the different roles on this site. Some of them are unbelievably complex.



the cool thing is, there are INFINITE roles on this site.
Yes, I suppose that is possible. But it is also important to have a well balanced game, I think. Often that means restricting the complexity of the game, e.g., by limiting the roles.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:26 am

Post by Antihero »

In post 33, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Lying means adding more confusion to the game and therefore harming the investigation / analysis. Unless you have a
really good
reason to lie, then generally the costs outweigh the benefits.

the guy who just joined today has more sense than the op...
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:27 am

Post by vonflare »

lol
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:28 am

Post by Antihero »

In post 34, BROseidon wrote:
In post 33, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Lying means adding more confusion to the game and therefore harming the investigation / analysis. Unless you have a
really good
reason to lie, then generally the costs outweigh the benefits.


You're an innocent child. You claim miller in your first post day 1 so that a cop doesn't waste an investigation on you.

You're a JOAT with a vig shot. You claim 1-shot vig to hide the fact that you can do additional things.

You're a hider. You claim weak visitor to bait scum into trying to NK you.

You're a doctor, you claim VT because duh

etc, etc

1) cop + ic = a mod i don't want to play another game with
2) that's not "lying" per se. just... leaving some stuff out.
3) that could backfire.
4) why...?
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:28 am

Post by vonflare »

if you claim doc you get NKed
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:30 am

Post by Antihero »

...and...?

with that logic EVERYONE should claim vt all the time.
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:35 am

Post by vonflare »

the logic is:

doc claims vt
[other power role] claims their role.

scum target other power role, doc protects them.
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:52 am

Post by Antihero »

that's mostly fantasy

and more likely to backfire on you
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:43 am

Post by BROseidon »

In post 41, Antihero wrote:
In post 34, BROseidon wrote:
In post 33, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Lying means adding more confusion to the game and therefore harming the investigation / analysis. Unless you have a
really good
reason to lie, then generally the costs outweigh the benefits.


You're an innocent child. You claim miller in your first post day 1 so that a cop doesn't waste an investigation on you.

You're a JOAT with a vig shot. You claim 1-shot vig to hide the fact that you can do additional things.

You're a hider. You claim weak visitor to bait scum into trying to NK you.

You're a doctor, you claim VT because duh

etc, etc

1) cop + ic = a mod i don't want to play another game with
2) that's not "lying" per se. just... leaving some stuff out.
3) that could backfire.
4) why...?


1) Cop was 1-shot when I played with that. Anyone who uses a full cop is a lazy mod anyway
2) Technically true, but still a lie
3) Eh, most backfire contexts require a severe misplay on your part, or require the scum to call you on being a hider
4) If you're a doctor and you claim doctor, barring using it to end the game by breaking the setup, is bad.
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:45 am

Post by BROseidon »

In post 43, Antihero wrote:with that logic EVERYONE should claim vt all the time.


Doc specifically doesn't really have a reason to claim.

Like, investigative roles have results to out, fruit vendors have targets who can confirm them, role blockers and JKs can claim who they blocked. A doc outing doesn't give the town any incremental information, and just gets the PR shot.

The one time this can backfire is a tracker/watcher catching a doc and claiming, but, like, they'd get a non-lethal result unless the scum have a strongman (which they've probably burned by that late in the game)
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:46 am

Post by BROseidon »

In post 46, BROseidon wrote:1) Cop was 1-shot when I played with that. Anyone who uses a full cop is a lazy mod anyway


Actually cops being more likely to be x-shot when an IC is in the game means deterring the cop from investigating you is more worthwhile.
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:19 pm

Post by Antihero »

In post 46, BROseidon wrote:4) If you're a doctor and you claim doctor,
barring using it to end the game by breaking the setup
, is bad.

well that's exactly what i had in mind
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