Lets talk a bout sheeping.

[LicketyQuickety]

Simply put, for players who are by and large, both articulate and have consistently good reads I have a suggestion on how to pressure them. Encourage and follow their reads. Eventually if everyone follows the people who are most likely to have the best reads and they are wrong too many time, you lynch them. I admit this has more practical value for large games. So it could play out like this: Day 1 everyone plays like they would normally play following their own reads and voting for their prefered lynch. Day Two adopt a follow the leader approach where the leader is by and large the errr... leader. The leader dictates who gets pressure, what players should be scrutinized and ultimately, when enough discussion has transpired, who to lynch that day. If the read was good and the player who was lynched is Scum, then you leave it up to that same player to play the leader role once again on day 3. If the leaders resulting actions lead to a miss-lynch, there is a new leader who is chosen who has statistically had good reads and got the correct read on the miss-lynched player. If the day Two leader sheeps the Day 3 leader and there is another miss-lynch then you lynch the day 2 leader. This process continues until the game is over. Thoughts?

I don't understand why sheeping is traditionally a weak play. Can someone explain this please?

[Ythan]

I agree with LicketyQuickety.

[LicketyQuickety]

Obviously PR complicate things a little.

[Plotinus]

Burden of Proficiency

also, this method would affect the good player's ability to get reads, because everyone is acting the same, everyone is sheeping.

it's kind of like being an innocent child or a mason; when I was a mason my reads were shit. being in a position like that does weird things to your head and your ability to scumhunt.

[Hinduragi]

This is never going to work barring a setup that revolves around it.

Even for the best players, reads change over time simply because everyone has their own sets of beliefs and reactions that they use to judge others. Noone here is in the 90th percentile for catching scum across all of their games and even then it begs the question of when to sheep them. This leads to a stifled and stale discussion with very little input from individuals once a leader is decided. Sheeping is great. Blindly following people because they can supposedly read the line between town/scum is not. This is more like random lynching but with an emphasis put on more experienced players.

[LicketyQuickety]

Burden of Proficiency

also, this method would affect the good player's ability to get reads, because everyone is acting the same, everyone is sheeping.

it's kind of like being an innocent child or a mason; when I was a mason my reads were shit. being in a position like that does weird things to your head and your ability to scumhunt.

It can affect a Towns leaders ability to get accurate reads and it can bolster the ability for the leader to get reads. Its all on individual basis. Players will gain a reputation for if they want to be sheeped or not. No, not everyone will be sheeping and that is where the art in discovering who the scum are.

It does not make everyone feel uneasy being in that position, it could very well do the opposite.

[LicketyQuickety]

This is never going to work barring a setup that revolves around it.

Even for the best players, reads change over time simply because everyone has their own sets of beliefs and reactions that they use to judge others. Noone here is in the 90th percentile for catching scum across all of their games and even then it begs the question of when to sheep them. This leads to a stifled and stale discussion with very little input from individuals once a leader is decided. Sheeping is great. Blindly following people because they can supposedly read the line between town/scum is not. This is more like random lynching but with an emphasis put on more experienced players.

If by change over time, you mean get more accurate over time, I would say that is pretty typical for people who consistently read people well. I bring up this discussion as a discussion topic and to see what people think about it. What is the difference between sheeping a role and sheeping a player? It is largely a game made up of individuals who act according to their possibilities presented to them. There need to be a known theory for how to approach sheeping and that is the discussion. It is actually the complete opposite of random. There is complete direction given to players as opposed to giving a group of people each their individual outlook without consequence. At lynch, >50% of players have to agree. That is by and large a majority of Town agreeing on a Scum lynch with comes from a single observation that a Town player has made on a Scum player that gains momentum through collaboration in some form of at the very least seeing eye to eye for most of the Town players.

[BROseidon]

being in a position like that does weird things to your head and your ability to scumhunt.

People making reads on you generally makes them easier to read.

[Hinduragi]

The only difference between the two(sheeping a role vs. player) is a matter of opinion, certainties, and trust.

There need to be a known theory for how to approach sheeping and that is the discussion.

Why would there need to be a known theory on how to approach it? Just let people play how they want and let the players of that game work it out.

No town needs complete direction, especially from a sitewide theory. I do not want this game to become something that follows "rules". The beauty of it is that humans are unpredictable and that shows in how each game plays out. Judging who gets to be sheeped vs. those that don't is something I don't want to see happen here. Ever. Yes, you get better at the game but you never become "the best".

This would be fine to look at statistically across certain games where each player consented to it however I would never want it to become a common practice nor participate in games where it is practiced.

[Antihero]

i can count on one hand the number of people i know who can be reliably read by proficiency

you're also not acknowledging that "leadership" and "reads accuracy" are discrete skill sets.

[Ankamius]

After playing a game where most of a scumteam blindly sheeped me when I 1v1'ed another town, I've come to really hate it when people blindly sheep other people.

[LicketyQuickety]

being in a position like that does weird things to your head and your ability to scumhunt.

People making reads on you generally makes them easier to read.

Is this a serious comment?

[Ythan]

He means posting reads.

[LicketyQuickety]

OK, so clearly some people have issue with Sheeping in at least some senses of the word. I would almost be up for scrapping the idea, except I think there are times when it is not only appropriate, but optimal.

[Ythan]

I think everyone does.

I know I was making a sheeping joke.

[pirate mollie]

I am all about the sheep!



sometimes it is the only way you can get scum lynched!

[Ythan]

And sometimes it's the only way scum can get lynches.

[Majiffy]

But don't try to play drunk

[BBmolla]

This is the best way to read Thor and zMuffinman imo

[BROseidon]

being in a position like that does weird things to your head and your ability to scumhunt.

People making reads on you generally makes them easier to read.

Is this a serious comment?

Yes.

[Wisdom]

Whatever Hinduragi said. Lickety, once again you are trying to generalize and standardize things that by their nature cannot follow standards. There can't be a guide on how and when to sheep. You do it when you feel like it.

[SilverWolf]

I only sheep when we need consensus on a lynch and that's not really sheeping. I will go along with my townreads if I agree with what they are saying-town blocs are a thing sometimes. But what you are suggesting would make the game boring and keep scum from being accountable for their votes. It also makes night decisions easier for scum in the game.

So no. One of the things that makes this game interesting is the wide variety of playstyles and personalities. This reminds me of your reads list thread. There just is no one right way to do things in this game and no way to make a single standard way to do something on a lot of things, which again, is why the game is so interesting.

[chamber]

Value of sheeping goes up tremendously in larger games. I can't imagine a large ever getting anywhere without some amount of sheeping. I think most micros can probably do without though. This is of course because the relative value of a single vote is proportional to the game size.

[BROseidon]

Value of sheeping goes up tremendously in larger games. I can't imagine a large ever getting anywhere without some amount of sheeping. I think most micros can probably do without though. This is of course because the relative value of a single vote is proportional to the game size.

Compromise is important in mafia!

[chamber]

I think of compromise and sheeping as separate things.

I'm willing to compromise when I still suspect the person being wagoned, they just aren't my primary suspect.

I'm willing to sheep when I just trust the person making the vote/leading the charge.

I think compromise is important to all mafia. I think it's not enough in larger games though because the number of people that people suspect doesn't increase proportionally to the game size, probably because they are only capable of really focusing on a group of 5 or so. In a micro I may have 3 suspects, and if thats true of everyone, some sort of compromise can get things moving. In a large of 25 if I still only have 4-5 suspects, it's unlikely there is enough overlap to make anything happen.