The Arrogance of Newbs

[St Constantine the Hermit]

People who come to mafia have a very high opinion of themselves. They are not very humble, and not only do they do things that look extremely stupid to experienced players with years of experience, but they immediately put themselves on the same level as these players too.

MS definitely has the highest number of newbs compared to any site which hosts mafia. I have noticed a lot of mislynches in different games which were dominated by players of less experience, and completely devoid of experienced players.

So there is the problem, now here is the solution. We have not been hazing newbs enough! Seriously, we need to demean newbs the moment they enter the game. Don't address them by their real names, just call them newbs and stick by it. Otherwise they are going to bring down the win rates of all the experienced players. Come on guys, you have been way to nice to newbs. While we are at it, we might as well limit their rights on the site too.

[Taly]

do you consider me a newb hermity? :c

[Ythan]

Joined : October 22, 2014

[St Constantine the Hermit]

You didn't act like a newb when I played with you.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Taly

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Joined : October 22, 2014

I have played mafia for three years. This is my second account on this site, but I have played mafia a lot more on various other community forums.

[Taly]

Joined : October 22, 2014

lmfao

You didn't act like a newb when I played with you.

<3

[Cheetory6]

Here are a couple suggestions that I believe the community should enforce on each other (not the adminstration), in order to make the environment more friendly. I am guilty of breaking some of these myself.

1. Complaining to the mod about another player should only be done through private message. Even that weird WOTC thing is a distraction that should be handled by the mod via private messages.

2. When expressing annoyance at a playstyle trend in a game, you should criticize the thinking, and not the person. In general, you should not use specific names if you are not replying to a specific statement. This causes people to get defensive almost all of the time.

3. Be nice to each other, and more importantly, give people second chances. We have a tendency to create a first impression of people, and when that first impression is negative, it becomes difficult to change our outlook. This makes it incredibly difficult for players who have been perceived negatively at first to adapt, because others already have a pre-conceived notion that everything they do or say sucks.

[Ythan]

I have played mafia for three years. This is my second account on this site, but I have played mafia a lot more on various other community forums.

Joined : 2012

[Taly]

@Cheetory

This is just what I do in the circumstances that you list.

1)

I don't really do WOTC; if I just didn't want to play something with a player then I wouldn't have signed up for the game. c: I tend to play with people I'm familiar with and so that goes well. Though, I do agree with you - however. People air their drama too much publicly.

2)

This is - by point - what I do. I always criticize someones argument versus their person - even if they attack on my person and I actually feel somewhat stung (which I've seen scum do in my experience) However, I can be pretty stern when I criticize's someones logic in-game. Hermit would know.

3)

Yeah.... I'm looking at earlier games where people have just...... sucked - not just as a player. So I'm trying to give people second chances now and being open and nicer to everyone

[Davsto]

I find it funny people thinking that newbies are any more arrogant than experienced players on this site.

I see newbies going "I'm new, please don't trust my reads fully" and that kind of thing way more often than I've seen arrogant newbies.

In regards to arrogant experienced players on this site... I'm sure everyone has at least one player in their heads they have personal experience of.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Taly - He is parodying me actually. That whole thing is a direct quote. He must think the OP contradicts those statements somehow

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I have played mafia for three years. This is my second account on this site, but I have played mafia a lot more on various other community forums.

Joined : 2012

Actually since you bring it up, I probably started closer to late 2011.

[Ythan]

I have played mafia for three years. This is my second account on this site, but I have played mafia a lot more on various other community forums.

Joined : 2012

Actually since you bring it up, I probably started closer to late 2011.

Joined : Late 2011

[Ankamius]

Arrogance comes with the game. There's a very fine line of confidence that works very well in this game, and it's very difficult not to toe the line if you think you're on the right track. Not to mention that the people who are trying to get you to change your mind might be people who don't want you to win, so stubbornness is going to happen at some point.

[Taly]

Stubbornness is so anti-town it's not even funny. LOL

[Taly]

....I just realized the heavy irony in this last post....

I'll show myself out the door.

[MarioManiac4]

Here are a couple suggestions that I believe the community should enforce on each other (not the adminstration), in order to make the environment more friendly. I am guilty of breaking some of these myself.

1. Complaining to the mod about another player should only be done through private message. Even that weird WOTC thing is a distraction that should be handled by the mod via private messages.

2. When expressing annoyance at a playstyle trend in a game, you should criticize the thinking, and not the person. In general, you should not use specific names if you are not replying to a specific statement. This causes people to get defensive almost all of the time.

3. Be nice to each other, and more importantly, give people second chances. We have a tendency to create a first impression of people, and when that first impression is negative, it becomes difficult to change our outlook. This makes it incredibly difficult for players who have been perceived negatively at first to adapt, because others already have a pre-conceived notion that everything they do or say sucks.

4. Don't discuss ongoing games.

[VysePresident]

Arrogance comes with the game. There's a very fine line of confidence that works very well in this game, and it's very difficult not to toe the line if you think you're on the right track. Not to mention that the people who are trying to get you to change your mind might be people who don't want you to win, so stubbornness is going to happen at some point.

This is something I've found myself dealing with before, in large part because my natural approach tends towards under confidence, and in trying to work past that, it's easy to go to the other extreme.

I think it's important to keep the distinction in mind between trying to solve the game, versus actual arrogance. There are good, gameplay related reasons to trust your reads first and foremost in mafia, and likewise, good players in particular are likely to trend this way. To paraphrase a quote from a philosopher I rather like - "It's not arrogance to believe yourself to be right, it's arrogance to be unable to comprehend how you could possibly be wrong." (Bigotry was used here, rather than arrogance, but it's much the same concept.)

In other words, by all means push your reads - that's the whole point of the Town side of the game, and don't drop a read just because you feel bad about it. Just don't lose sight of the fact that it's a game, and the fact that the other players are people too. Be respectful in your disagreement, and it's actually quite a bit easier to gain that respect in turn.

Ironically, I find that, far from handicapping me, this actually makes it

easier

to solve the game, usually. That's not to mention how much it helps get people to actually listen to me. Firmness isn't a terrible thing, but it's best served thoughtful, as opposed to blind, in my opinion.

This is my 02, anyway, from an obsessive tryhard.

[Firebringer]

I am the most arrogant 'newbie' in existence, nobody can top me.

Except Ythan, that guy is extremely arrogant. Its funny all I ever see him do when trying to prove a point is quoting someones join date as if that makes him auto right. Very hilarious to watch.

[Cheetory6]

we need to demean newbs the moment they enter the game. Don't address them by their real names, just call them newbs and stick by it. Otherwise they are going to bring down the win rates of all the experienced players. Come on guys, you have been way to nice to newbs. While we are at it, we might as well limit their rights on the site too.

3. Be nice to each other, and more importantly, give people second chances. We have a tendency to create a first impression of people, and when that first impression is negative, it becomes difficult to change our outlook. This makes it incredibly difficult for players who have been perceived negatively at first to adapt, because others already have a pre-conceived notion that everything they do or say sucks.

Practice what you preach.

[zMuffinMan]

i wouldn't take him seriously. i think this thread was made because he was sick and tired of people saying bad things about him but instead of grasping the fact that it's not his join date that's the reason for this, he just assumes it's elitism from people who have been around longer

[Firebringer]

i wouldn't take him seriously. i think this thread was made because he was sick and tired of people saying bad things about him but instead of grasping the fact that it's not his join date that's the reason for this, he just assumes it's elitism from people who have been around longer

Their is a elistism culture on this site tho, its actually amusing everytime I see it.

[zMuffinMan]

no, not really, though i imagine there are people who think join date matters, it's hardly a "culture"

[Firebringer]

no, not really, though i imagine there are people who think join date matters, it's hardly a "culture"

I have heard it in enough games that I feel its pretty apparent lol. Culture might be too strong, but still a very prominent part of this site.