Closed Setups Are Horrible

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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:56 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 93, kuribo wrote:If you think that's how a good fakeclaim is made, it's no damn wonder you don't know what you're talking about.

Thank you, insulting my experience and knowledge is excellent way of engaging in a dialogue.
How about instead of attacking me, you explain what I don't understand?
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:57 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 99, zMuffinMan wrote:all sports are games. mafia is a game. the learning curve is low, even if you have an advantage by knowing more things than someone else

protip: you can also read, which (perhaps magically) makes you know what others know!

zmuffin, do you really consider all games sports?
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:00 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

that's not what i said, but i can see why you don't like reading!
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:00 pm

Post by Firebringer »

Reading is for plebs.
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:30 pm

Post by Davsto »

In post 86, Firebringer wrote:Rewarding experienced players over any player, is inherently unfair.

Uhh, ahh, ummm....

Don't experienced players by definition do better in mafia and, as such, are rewarded for being experienced? This seems like a flawed premise.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:33 pm

Post by zMuffinMan »

well, technically pure newbies can be better than more experienced players if they actually know how to read (research) and have basic reasoning skills, so that's not true

i don't think i played great in my first games, but i certainly had an understanding of the game before i attempted playing it, so i wasn't completely lost. i also didn't play closed setups until i had done enough research to have at least a basic understanding of setup balance and what kinds of things to expect, so i also wasn't completely lost in my first closed games

do closed games give an advantage to people who are experienced? not really. do they give an advantage to people who know more than others do? yes. is knowing more than others linked to experience? in a way, yes, but not necessarily
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:57 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 100, Firebringer wrote:Thank you, insulting my experience and knowledge is excellent way of engaging in a dialogue.
How about instead of attacking me, you explain what I don't understand?


A fakeclaim isn't made by "bullshiting and making stuff up and hoping someone who understands the hosts mind better doesn't call you out on a claim," it's a delicate artform that takes into account:

Risk- You don't know the setup, so you don't know if you're going to be counterclaimed. Go ahead, claim doc. If there's an actual doc, and he counterclaims you, the players will have to decide who they believe more.

Forethought- A well-done fakeclaim will be planned out and prepared for long before the claim is made. Gonna claim cop? You're going to have to claim results. You better damn well not have placed even an iota of suspicion of someone after the time you supposedly received your "innocent result."

Strategy- There are ways to counterclaim someone besides directly. Scum can claim tracker and say the "cop" never went anywhere, for example.

There are so many more nuances to a good fakeclaim than "bullshitting and making stuff up and hoping someone who understands the hosts mind better doesn't call you out on a claim." The fact that you don't seem to understand this, tells me you really don't understand what you're talking about. And I don't mean that as an insult, i'm simply stating a fact that's obvious to anyone who's actually played here.

This isn't some pisspoor backwater mafia site where you can, as you say, claim to be bus driven in an open setup without a bus driver. Do you know how fast you'd be lynched for that? I wouldn't even have to press my caps lock to get your ass strung up on that one.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:19 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 105, zMuffinMan wrote:well, technically pure newbies can be better than more experienced players if they actually know how to read (research) and have basic reasoning skills, so that's not true


When Tierce first started here, she had a pretty rapid rise through the ranks of opinion, mostly because she gained a lot of experience by reading probably close to every single game that had ever been played on the site.

She'd bring up things I had done years ago that I'd long forgotten about.
Join me on my quest to play every NES game! Some of them are awful.

Kuribo's read is foolproof: one night he was high on NyQuil, and he's ancestors reveiled Aureal's alignment to him. - Dessew
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