I FREAKING HATE ALTS

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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:21 pm

Post by Vampirate »

In post 98, Titus wrote:Alts and hydras have a purpose. To me, they let me see filter out bias based on what players expect and get to the core of what players say. Baggage from game to game is minimized. If the player still encounters the same issue, it more likely than not is their style (unless the alt is exposed/seen through).
If you're doing it to avoid wotc, that isn't cool
. It means either the wotc system is broke or the player is not listening, most likely.

Hydras on the other hand, let players see how someone else approaches the same set of information. This, if done well, allows both players to grow as players in mafia games. Some tools I use lately have come out from hydras I have seen.
To be frank if you are using an alt to avoid wotc then it really doesn't matter.

Either

A, You go into your bad habits and then people get fed up with you and your alt also gets wotc'd.

B, You chill out with your bad habits with your alt. Since they don't have a problem with your alt you, just the original username that got wotc'd. There would be no issues.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:19 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 96, pirate mollie wrote:it is a false equivalency
no it's not
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:23 pm

Post by Psyche »

the reasons people use hydras and hydras are bad are in generic sense about the same as those why people use alts and that use is problematic
both are tolerated because the trade-off is not quite indisputably obtrusive
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:55 pm

Post by pirate mollie »

In post 100, Vampirate wrote:
In post 98, Titus wrote:Alts and hydras have a purpose. To me, they let me see filter out bias based on what players expect and get to the core of what players say. Baggage from game to game is minimized. If the player still encounters the same issue, it more likely than not is their style (unless the alt is exposed/seen through).
If you're doing it to avoid wotc, that isn't cool
. It means either the wotc system is broke or the player is not listening, most likely.

Hydras on the other hand, let players see how someone else approaches the same set of information. This, if done well, allows both players to grow as players in mafia games. Some tools I use lately have come out from hydras I have seen.
To be frank if you are using an alt to avoid wotc then it really doesn't matter.

Either

A, You go into your bad habits and then people get fed up with you and your alt also gets wotc'd.

B, You chill out with your bad habits with your alt. Since they don't have a problem with your alt you, just the original username that got wotc'd. There would be no issues.
a: this happens/ meanwhile iit costs pple a significant amount time and investment in the game which they might not have spent if they knew who they were dealing with in the first place.

b: the issue is that 1 player is going into stealth mode and entering the game with more info on players (presuming that they are familiar with the playerbase which is far more likely than not) than what they wld have on them. plz explain as to how this is an equal leveling playing field.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:58 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 103, pirate mollie wrote:b: the issue is that 1 player is going into stealth mode and entering the game with more info on players (presuming that they are familiar with the playerbase which is far more likely than not) than what they wld have on them. plz explain as to how this is an equal leveling playing field.
If you think its unfair, why don't you just use an alt yourself to be on equal playing field as them?
To most its not a concern, to those who it is a concern can use the same techniques that they are concerned with to play on even field.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:14 pm

Post by pirate mollie »

In post 101, Psyche wrote:
In post 96, pirate mollie wrote:it is a false equivalency
no it's not
In post 102, Psyche wrote:the reasons people use hydras and hydras are bad are in generic sense about the same as those why people use alts and that use is problematic
both are tolerated because the trade-off is not quite indisputably obtrusive
I think you have done a fantastic job of ignoring titus's point here:
Hydras on the other hand, let players see how someone else approaches the same set of information. This, if done well, allows both players to grow as players in mafia games. Some tools I use lately have come out from hydras I have seen.
plz explain to me how an alt can approach the game with the same set of info and provide a mutual learning experience. cos even if the alt is masons with another player they still have more info than their mason partner unless they expose their alt.

stop conflating alt issues with hydra issues and mebbe a genuine discussion in which both parties reach an understanding of where the other is coming from can take place. saying arbitrarily that the 2 are the same doesn't work when you ignore the points that demonstrate how they are different.

eta:
disclaimer
: I like some alts.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:42 pm

Post by Ranmaru »

The only information an alt can have over another player is meta. For one, this is a system based on trust. Just as is the system of 'no outside communication'. That friend broke that trust, and he's no true sportsman. I do admit that is a dick move. One's dirty actions does not mean the whole system should be disowned. Should this not mean you should work on changing your meta so this does not become a problem? Meta isn't always reliable. Also, I asked for that particular friends real account so I can read his hilarious posts because I want to laugh. So, if an alt actually tried to use meta against me, I would not care. Some people play dirty, you just have to outplay them.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:49 pm

Post by Psyche »

unduly hostile along with hypocritical
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:40 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 104, Firebringer wrote:If you think its unfair, why don't you just use an alt yourself to be on equal playing field as them?
To most its not a concern, to those who it is a concern can use the same techniques that they are concerned with to play on even field.
So your answer to people using alts for an unfair advantage is to force players who dislike alts to use them?

That's pretty spurious reasoning ...
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Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:54 am

Post by SpyreX »

I think if hydras were a guy giving input in a qt and a single one posting I'd hate them slightly less.
Alts for meta reasons is more a function of how much i hate meta because it becomes a shield for stupid
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:19 pm

Post by pirate mollie »

In post 107, Psyche wrote:unduly hostile along with hypocritical
its okay to admit when you are wrong, psyche. I don't think anybody will think less of you.

@ ranmaru

I think I probably use meta in a different way than most pple. I don't do meta by pattern matching usually, I really more on how a person thinks and approaches the game. which to me is more reliable than pattern matching meta which is how most pple use it. is it accurate 100% of the time? nope, not even close. which is why it isn't the only tool that I use.

I recently lost a game where I
shld
have applied meta but didn't and it was only postgame that I remembered a personal tidbit in gd that wld have explained that person's actions at the time. unfortunately I didn't and I misread the player and cost town the game. if I wld have remembered it I wld have understood
why
this player was acting the way that they were acting. I wld have been more understanding and cld have worked around it but I didn't.

if you want me to pm the player's name, I will, but I need permission from the player first.

@ spyrella

I do see what you are saying about hydras and have said/supported that. issues with hydras and issues with alts are 2 different animals tho. there are a few hydras that I won't use again cos the disharmony is awful and it disrupts the game. but that is another discussion.

I can see a mod wanting to use an alt, just because there is an unconscious bias towards authority figures. I can see an all alt game. I can see some1 creating an alt as a fun schtick. or pple just like to explore different identities. none of those I have a problem with. I have changed my attitude around that from when I started this thread after talking to other pple about it. I just really don't like it when pple use alts to dodge meta, wotc and blacklisting reasons. its just my opinion.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:17 pm

Post by SpyreX »

No i agree for the most part. I think that part of the issue stems from so much meta all the places.
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:25 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 108, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 104, Firebringer wrote:If you think its unfair, why don't you just use an alt yourself to be on equal playing field as them?
To most its not a concern, to those who it is a concern can use the same techniques that they are concerned with to play on even field.
So your answer to people using alts for an unfair advantage is to force players who dislike alts to use them?

That's pretty spurious reasoning ...
Force? Nobody forces you to do anything. You want no alts so bad? Get a group together you know to play a game. Ask the mod to not allow alts.

your not forced to play with anyone. But if you want to "even" the field. Why not?
More than half of the advantage of playing on an alt to avoid meta reads is purely psychological boost.
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"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:34 pm

Post by Psyche »

In post 110, pirate mollie wrote:its okay to admit when you are wrong, psyche. I don't think anybody will think less of you.
i don't think i'm wrong
i do think you're being obnoxious
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:50 pm

Post by Accountant »

Can't we all get along
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:52 am

Post by vonflare »

fight fight fight fight
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:12 am

Post by BlackStar »

Having alts is fun.
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:14 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

I don't rely on meta that much, what I normally do is hunt the one account I'm looking for data on. So alts aren't a big problem for me.
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