Bussing: When is it Logical to Consider?
- DiamondSentinel
-
DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
- DiamondSentinel
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5386
- Joined: September 3, 2015
Bussing: When is it Logical to Consider?
So, one thing I've been thinking about in my recent games is when it's likely that scum is bussing and when is it a ridiculous thought? If scum is down to half numbers, would it be logical to assume any busses except for lost cause ones (L-1 or 2), or would it be like 2 scum left?
Also, when would it be logical for scum to bus? Day 1 busses seem to win pretty often (at least from what I've seen), but at the same time, I've seen games where scum never bus and come through with a flawless victory? Would it depend on the players of the scum team?
For instance, one that I've played had someone wonderful at playing scum and misdirecting town, and another had a VI, so to speak, and then a couple throwaways. The VI attracted attention, and the scum leader kept them away from him.
Would this work more than the couple of games I've seen this happen, or is it a rare occurrence?“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- Cheetory6
-
Cheetory6 MS Painter
- Cheetory6
- DiamondSentinel
-
DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
- DiamondSentinel
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5386
- Joined: September 3, 2015
Well, that's my thinking. I honestly am of the opinion that any game that's winnable can be won sans bussing, but site meta seems to suggest opposite. This thread is more to help my play as town, tbh.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”-
-
hiplop Jury Darling
- Jury Darling
- Jury Darling
- Posts: 12498
- Joined: March 23, 2011
- Location: full of self
- Contact:
- Cheery Dog
-
Cheery Dog Kayak
- Cheery Dog
- Kayak
- Kayak
- Posts: 8035
- Joined: June 30, 2012
- Location: OMG BALL!
- Cheetory6
-
Cheetory6 MS Painter
- Cheetory6
- MS Painter
- MS Painter
- Posts: 7403
- Joined: September 21, 2014
- SilverWolf
-
SilverWolf Jack of All Trades
- SilverWolf
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7689
- Joined: July 23, 2014
- Location: US-Central Time Zone
Open 613 RC and I bussed Taly because his name kept being brought up for lynch over and over. I resisted the idea of bussing where RC wanted to right off the bat. I finally came around to it and we pretty much led the charge on Taly's lynch. Anyway, we both got towncred off of that plus some associatives Taly had made some others look bad. So we won that one and that was a big reason why. No, I don't like bussing but in this case, when we had a teammate that kept being brought up as a lynch candidate, we decided to go ahead and it worked very well for us since we won that game.Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.- RadiantCowbells
-
RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth Criminal
- RadiantCowbells
He/him- Smooth Criminal
- Smooth Criminal
- Posts: 70855
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/him
- Contact:
- implosion
-
implosion he/himPolymath
- implosion
he/him- Polymath
- Polymath
- Posts: 14328
- Joined: September 9, 2010
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: zoraster's wine cellar
From a scum pov I think bussing is just like any other strategy in one sense: do it sometimes, don't do it other times. In this way you avoid establishing a meta or becoming predictable. Deciding when to is a matter of how much utility you think you'll get out of it.
From a town pov I think on d1-2 it's typically pretty fine to assume that no bussing occurred if you got lucky and lynched scum. As more time goes on, your assumptions should become looser and looser in general; this applies to assumptions about bussing as well. It also depends on the player. Plenty of players have been known for frequent hardbussing.- RadiantCowbells
-
RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth Criminal
- RadiantCowbells
He/him- Smooth Criminal
- Smooth Criminal
- Posts: 70855
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/him
- Contact:
In post 8, implosion wrote:From a scum pov I think bussing is just like any other strategy in one sense: do it sometimes, don't do it other times. In this way you avoid establishing a meta or becoming predictable. Deciding when to is a matter of how much utility you think you'll get out of it.
From a town pov I think on d1-2 it's typically pretty fine to assume that no bussing occurred if you got lucky and lynched scum. As more time goes on, your assumptions should become looser and looser in general; this applies to assumptions about bussing as well. It also depends on the player. Plenty of players have been known for frequent hardbussing.
Tell me more about these players.- Ether
-
Ether ♀Lyrical Rampage
- Ether
♀- Lyrical Rampage
- Lyrical Rampage
- Posts: 4790
- Joined: July 24, 2006
- Pronoun: ♀
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
There are reasons not to bus.
-Power roles won't be fooled by a bus, and many power roles get stronger the fewer scum are left. It's better to stay conservative about bussing before you know who or what you're up against, so you don't turn a tracker into a cop.
-Your buddy could still recover, or get replaced by someone competent
-Your buddy flipping as scum might reflect even better on townies than it would on you, making them hard or impossible to lynch when you could have done it just fine by pushing them first
-You'll look good in the short term, but eventually you'll fall into "but what have you done for me lately" syndrome if the bus was your only source of towncred. An early bus won't be enough on its own if you're not the sort of player who can maintain that lead.(Although not all scum can judge themselves this well.)
None of these reasons apply all the time. As both alignments, pay attention to when they don't.
Also, sometimes your trajectory would just look ridiculous if you didn't bus. I'm thinking of Micro 541 here, where ActionDan replaced in as scum and expressed suspicion of a townie (Wickedestjr) and his scumbuddy (Titus) and tried to get Wicked lynched. But at deadline, Titus and a townie he hadn't mentioned were at -1, he was pressured to hammer Titus, and he did.(Wicked was also at -1, because weird voting mechanics, but ActionDan was already on that wagon and clearly wasn't going to get it.)And then everyone proceeded to clear him for that, when hammering the townie instead would have probably gotten him insta-lynched.
It's better not to end up in that situation as scum, but as town you should recognize that scum can't just turn all their reads around at 12 hours to deadline.As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder andLOUDER-
-
Anxiety Attack Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 822
- Joined: December 8, 2015
In post 7, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think bussing your hydra partners is a good idea when you roll scum.
LOLHydra of ika and SilverWolf- chamber
-
chamber Cases are scummy
- chamber
- Cases are scummy
- Cases are scummy
- Posts: 10703
- Joined: November 20, 2005
- DiamondSentinel
-
DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
- DiamondSentinel
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5386
- Joined: September 3, 2015
So basically if there is someone getting town cred from others for hammering a scum, kill them with fire? XD“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”- Ether
-
Ether ♀Lyrical Rampage
- Ether
♀- Lyrical Rampage
- Lyrical Rampage
- Posts: 4790
- Joined: July 24, 2006
- Pronoun: ♀
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Just don't insta-clear them for the rest of the game. If that's someone's only source of towncred, then that shouldn't be enough to overcome everything else it hasn't done.
Bussing is rare. Or at least, in the current meta it's perceived to be rare--I don't follow enough games to know how true that is. But, like...scum do know who their buddies are, theycanbus, don't be naïve about it.As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder andLOUDER- chamber
-
chamber Cases are scummy
- chamber
- Cases are scummy
- Cases are scummy
- Posts: 10703
- Joined: November 20, 2005
- Cheetory6
-
Cheetory6 MS Painter
- Cheetory6
- MS Painter
- MS Painter
- Posts: 7403
- Joined: September 21, 2014
- SilverWolf
-
SilverWolf Jack of All Trades
- SilverWolf
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7689
- Joined: July 23, 2014
- Location: US-Central Time Zone
Yeah, I generally check the end of the wagon for bussing scum. Then check those ISO's. More than likely they will be there.
If you are gonna bus, better to start or lead the charge on it. One game, that happened. Scum bussed their partner on D1-they were cleared the rest of the game and won.
I would not say it's a good strategy-numbers are better. But it's a strategy I've seen work and have used as well. So just look out for it when you play. Don't just assume being on a scum lynch means a person is town. Check what else they do. Pretty much what Ether already told you.Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.- Dwlee99
-
Dwlee99 They/themSurvivor
- Dwlee99
They/them- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 25777
- Joined: July 3, 2015
- Pronoun: They/them
- Location: Northeast USA
- Untrod Tripod
-
Untrod Tripod Fat and Sassy
- Untrod Tripod
- Fro99er
-
Fro99er Survivor
- Fro99er
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 16952
- Joined: April 2, 2015
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend- Performer
-
Performer Mafia Scum
- Performer
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4142
- Joined: August 6, 2015
- Location: California
In post 8, implosion wrote:From a scum pov I think bussing is just like any other strategy in one sense: do it sometimes, don't do it other times. In this way you avoid establishing a meta or becoming predictable. Deciding when to is a matter of how much utility you think you'll get out of it.
From a town pov I think on d1-2 it's typically pretty fine to assume that no bussing occurred if you got lucky and lynched scum. As more time goes on, your assumptions should become looser and looser in general; this applies to assumptions about bussing as well. It also depends on the player. Plenty of players have been known for frequent hardbussing.
I probably will bus anyone whenever I feel like it.
Hence why my scum game is horrid.I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum.-Morality
I'm easily the best person in the game at mechanics. I don't presume to be the best at anything else.-Jingle
People tried-RadiantCowbells-
-
Anxiety Attack Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 822
- Joined: December 8, 2015
In post 21, Performer wrote:In post 8, implosion wrote:From a scum pov I think bussing is just like any other strategy in one sense: do it sometimes, don't do it other times. In this way you avoid establishing a meta or becoming predictable. Deciding when to is a matter of how much utility you think you'll get out of it.
From a town pov I think on d1-2 it's typically pretty fine to assume that no bussing occurred if you got lucky and lynched scum. As more time goes on, your assumptions should become looser and looser in general; this applies to assumptions about bussing as well. It also depends on the player. Plenty of players have been known for frequent hardbussing.
I probably will bus anyone whenever I feel like it.
Hence why my scum game is horrid.
Meh, it's only good under certain conditions. Treat your partners like you would anyone else. If they act scummy, say so, vote them. If they act town, townread them. And anything in between. But do question them and talk to them like anyone else. Don't treat them different cuz they are your buddies. This is easier said than done as my natural inclination is to think myself and my buddies are scummier than we really are because we know we are scum but town doesn't yet. And overlooking bad behavior from a scummate is easy to do as well.Hydra of ika and SilverWolf- SilverWolf
-
SilverWolf Jack of All Trades
- SilverWolf
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7689
- Joined: July 23, 2014
- Location: US-Central Time Zone
- Albert B. Rampage
-
Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Albert B. Rampage
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
- Albert B. Rampage
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
- SilverWolf
- Performer
- Fro99er
- Dwlee99
- SilverWolf
- Cheetory6
- chamber
- Ether
- DiamondSentinel
- chamber
- Ether
- RadiantCowbells
- implosion
- RadiantCowbells
- SilverWolf
- Cheetory6
- Cheery Dog
- DiamondSentinel
- DiamondSentinel