Bussing: When is it Logical to Consider?

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Bussing: When is it Logical to Consider?

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:09 pm

Post by DiamondSentinel »

So, one thing I've been thinking about in my recent games is when it's likely that scum is bussing and when is it a ridiculous thought? If scum is down to half numbers, would it be logical to assume any busses except for lost cause ones (L-1 or 2), or would it be like 2 scum left?

Also, when would it be logical for scum to bus? Day 1 busses seem to win pretty often (at least from what I've seen), but at the same time, I've seen games where scum never bus and come through with a flawless victory? Would it depend on the players of the scum team?

For instance, one that I've played had someone wonderful at playing scum and misdirecting town, and another had a VI, so to speak, and then a couple throwaways. The VI attracted attention, and the scum leader kept them away from him.

Would this work more than the couple of games I've seen this happen, or is it a rare occurrence?
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:11 pm

Post by Cheetory6 »

Bussing is for chumps.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:21 pm

Post by DiamondSentinel »

Well, that's my thinking. I honestly am of the opinion that any game that's winnable can be won sans bussing, but site meta seems to suggest opposite. This thread is more to help my play as town, tbh.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:26 pm

Post by hiplop »

only need one to win, why not bus if it'll help one win the game?
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:27 pm

Post by Cheery Dog »

Always consider it, don't put it in action.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:27 pm

Post by Cheetory6 »

Because you can just not bus and have scummates and win and be a baller.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:35 pm

Post by SilverWolf »

Open 613 RC and I bussed Taly because his name kept being brought up for lynch over and over. I resisted the idea of bussing where RC wanted to right off the bat. I finally came around to it and we pretty much led the charge on Taly's lynch. Anyway, we both got towncred off of that plus some associatives Taly had made some others look bad. So we won that one and that was a big reason why. No, I don't like bussing but in this case, when we had a teammate that kept being brought up as a lynch candidate, we decided to go ahead and it worked very well for us since we won that game.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:31 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I think bussing your hydra partners is a good idea when you roll scum.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:36 pm

Post by implosion »

From a scum pov I think bussing is just like any other strategy in one sense: do it sometimes, don't do it other times. In this way you avoid establishing a meta or becoming predictable. Deciding when to is a matter of how much utility you think you'll get out of it.

From a town pov I think on d1-2 it's typically pretty fine to assume that no bussing occurred if you got lucky and lynched scum. As more time goes on, your assumptions should become looser and looser in general; this applies to assumptions about bussing as well. It also depends on the player. Plenty of players have been known for frequent hardbussing.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:03 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 8, implosion wrote:From a scum pov I think bussing is just like any other strategy in one sense: do it sometimes, don't do it other times. In this way you avoid establishing a meta or becoming predictable. Deciding when to is a matter of how much utility you think you'll get out of it.

From a town pov I think on d1-2 it's typically pretty fine to assume that no bussing occurred if you got lucky and lynched scum. As more time goes on, your assumptions should become looser and looser in general; this applies to assumptions about bussing as well. It also depends on the player. Plenty of players have been known for frequent hardbussing.


Tell me more about these players.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:04 am

Post by Ether »

There are reasons not to bus.

-Power roles won't be fooled by a bus, and many power roles get stronger the fewer scum are left. It's better to stay conservative about bussing before you know who or what you're up against, so you don't turn a tracker into a cop.
-Your buddy could still recover, or get replaced by someone competent
-Your buddy flipping as scum might reflect even better on townies than it would on you, making them hard or impossible to lynch when you could have done it just fine by pushing them first
-You'll look good in the short term, but eventually you'll fall into "but what have you done for me lately" syndrome if the bus was your only source of towncred. An early bus won't be enough on its own if you're not the sort of player who can maintain that lead.
(Although not all scum can judge themselves this well.)


None of these reasons apply all the time. As both alignments, pay attention to when they don't.

Also, sometimes your trajectory would just look ridiculous if you didn't bus. I'm thinking of Micro 541 here, where ActionDan replaced in as scum and expressed suspicion of a townie (Wickedestjr) and his scumbuddy (Titus) and tried to get Wicked lynched. But at deadline, Titus and a townie he hadn't mentioned were at -1, he was pressured to hammer Titus, and he did.
(Wicked was also at -1, because weird voting mechanics, but ActionDan was already on that wagon and clearly wasn't going to get it.)
And then everyone proceeded to clear him for that, when hammering the townie instead would have probably gotten him insta-lynched.

It's better not to end up in that situation as scum, but as town you should recognize that scum can't just turn all their reads around at 12 hours to deadline.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:48 am

Post by Anxiety Attack »

In post 7, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think bussing your hydra partners is a good idea when you roll scum.


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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:57 am

Post by chamber »

I don't think it's easy to make a calculation like this in the abstract. Scum are rewarded most for bussing when they wont be perceived to have bussed. That means site meta at the time and the specifics of the players in the specific game matter a lot.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:31 am

Post by DiamondSentinel »

So basically if there is someone getting town cred from others for hammering a scum, kill them with fire? XD
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:24 am

Post by Ether »

Just don't insta-clear them for the rest of the game. If that's someone's only source of towncred, then that shouldn't be enough to overcome everything else it hasn't done.

Bussing is rare. Or at least, in the current meta it's perceived to be rare--I don't follow enough games to know how true that is. But, like...scum do know who their buddies are, they
can
bus, don't be naïve about it.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:31 am

Post by chamber »

I don't think bussing in the current meta is rare or perceived to be rare?
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:34 am

Post by Cheetory6 »

Bussing is one of the first things I look for when scum flips.
The day that I play a large game in which scum gets lynched and there isn't a single scum on the wagon I will stop colouring votecounts.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:17 am

Post by SilverWolf »

Yeah, I generally check the end of the wagon for bussing scum. Then check those ISO's. More than likely they will be there.

If you are gonna bus, better to start or lead the charge on it. One game, that happened. Scum bussed their partner on D1-they were cleared the rest of the game and won.

I would not say it's a good strategy-numbers are better. But it's a strategy I've seen work and have used as well. So just look out for it when you play. Don't just assume being on a scum lynch means a person is town. Check what else they do. Pretty much what Ether already told you.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:25 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62787

Look what yuri did to me. That's how you bus~
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:39 am

Post by Untrod Tripod »

Always be bussing
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:04 am

Post by Fro99er »

In post 1, Cheetory6 wrote:Bussing is for chumps.

In post 19, Untrod Tripod wrote:Always be bussing

Wheeeee
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:15 am

Post by Performer »

In post 8, implosion wrote:From a scum pov I think bussing is just like any other strategy in one sense: do it sometimes, don't do it other times. In this way you avoid establishing a meta or becoming predictable. Deciding when to is a matter of how much utility you think you'll get out of it.

From a town pov I think on d1-2 it's typically pretty fine to assume that no bussing occurred if you got lucky and lynched scum. As more time goes on, your assumptions should become looser and looser in general; this applies to assumptions about bussing as well. It also depends on the player. Plenty of players have been known for frequent hardbussing.

I probably will bus anyone whenever I feel like it.
Hence why my scum game is horrid. :wink:
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:33 am

Post by Anxiety Attack »

In post 21, Performer wrote:
In post 8, implosion wrote:From a scum pov I think bussing is just like any other strategy in one sense: do it sometimes, don't do it other times. In this way you avoid establishing a meta or becoming predictable. Deciding when to is a matter of how much utility you think you'll get out of it.

From a town pov I think on d1-2 it's typically pretty fine to assume that no bussing occurred if you got lucky and lynched scum. As more time goes on, your assumptions should become looser and looser in general; this applies to assumptions about bussing as well. It also depends on the player. Plenty of players have been known for frequent hardbussing.

I probably will bus anyone whenever I feel like it.
Hence why my scum game is horrid. :wink:


Meh, it's only good under certain conditions. Treat your partners like you would anyone else. If they act scummy, say so, vote them. If they act town, townread them. And anything in between. But do question them and talk to them like anyone else. Don't treat them different cuz they are your buddies. This is easier said than done as my natural inclination is to think myself and my buddies are scummier than we really are because we know we are scum but town doesn't yet. And overlooking bad behavior from a scummate is easy to do as well.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:33 am

Post by SilverWolf »

^^^^^^^^^

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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:19 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Variance in your game will make you a better player
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