Counterclaim immediately?

[Gale Wing Srock]

Guys, what about if the claim is not made during L-1? And is made by a radical player who is difficult to read?

For example, if player A claims a PR and they appear townie. But Player B knows that it is their role that Player A has claimed, would it be advisable for Player B to not CC? In the hopes that the scums would target Player A instead?

I know its a risky and insane strategy by Player A, but I have seen people do it for logical reasons.

[Titus]

I would try to subtly counterclaim, by saying there's no way the claim is true and drop massive hints, doubly so if the game is normal.

If janitors are in the game, outright cc.

The problem with this is that any hint you drop is going to be picked up by the scumteam with 99% certainty. It will be completely obvious to them that you're suddenly saying things related to what they know to be a fake-claim and for which they're expecting a counterclaim.

Meanwhile, town is in the dark, and scum has the initiative to exploit the difference in information. They can roleblock you for the rest of the game, casting doubt on your eventual CC. They can pretend to have performed some Night action revealing that the claimant is scum, pre-empting the CC. A one-shot janitor, which you wouldn't know about, would be disastrous as well.

Normal games preclude janitors. Second, if scum roleblock you the next day, then claim pointing to your cc crumbs.

By not directly CCing, you force scum to give more information than they otherwise would.

[Rob14]

Also, I hate the modding meta that there can't be two of any role, and the fact that it's so ubiquitous that changing it now would just randomly punish towns for no good reason. But that's for another time.

I've been playing with my modding meta recently to try to break site norms. I'm tired of being meta'd as a mod.

[kuribo]

but you know he is lying as you are the Cop.

I've been in closed setups where two actual cops were counterclaiming one another.

That didn't go well.

[BROseidon]

The alternative is where a miller claims page 1, the other miller CCs, and the first miller is like "lol we're both town."

#APsetups.

[kuribo]

The alternative is where a miller claims page 1, the other miller CCs, and the first miller is like "lol we're both town."

#APsetups.

Solution as town: Create a unified front in which you all consistently call both players 100% confirmed town.

Scum will eventually kill one or both. If the other is scum, it'll eventually be brought to light when you're killing his buddies.

[BROseidon]

Oh town won that game by lynching scum d1 and d2.

It's a pretty fun game to read.

[Performer]

Let's say some guy gets driven to L-1 and claims Cop... but you know he is lying as you are the Cop. Obviously counterclaiming will (almost) nearly ensure a scum lynch.

But the question is, should you counterclaim

immediately

? Seemingly on this site yes, but I don't see the advantage to it. If you delay counterclaiming by one day, you get one more investigation, forcing scum to kill an otherwise scummy player (or even better: finding another scum). Also people will find it suspicious why the claimed PR wasn't killed, and yet someone else was.

Only time I'd say CCing immediately is good is LyLo (obviously), or day before LyLo (people may not believe your claim).

It depends. There's no mention of context here so I'll just assume it's a game that was reviewed for normalcy and balance.
What I can agree with in your post is counterclaiming at end days of the game, is very helpful because you can back that up more easily, with the amounting evidence collected from days AND nights before. More specifically, I'm talking about days 3 and beyond - those times, from what I've seen, are excellent times for town PR counterclaims.

Overall though if you're the actual town PR, then you have to consider several factors before acting. Otherwise you may not be believed because the rest of town is playing horribly. Remember - not every player base in every game, will go through the same critical thinking steps.
-Consider who's been playing well and who's defending you. You have a better chance of support for your counterclaim, if those players exist in the game
-Consider what the claimer said. Pose a few quick questions to him to reveal lies in his claim. If you (and most likely you will) catch him in 1+ lies, then counterclaim immediately. Be prepared for follow-up questions from town though
-Consider the day phase you're in. In day 1 if he fake claimed, you should not counterclaim. I've seen town players fake claim a role, tell us they were joking, then that led to them getting lynched because we thought they were scum. In this situation, if he fake claimed in d1, you do not counterclaim (which hides your role from others), and you should investigate someone else other than the claimer. Because if he lives onto next day, you can question him why he's still alive. If he does die, well, then your investigation on someone else wasn't wasted. An advanced tactic that many people don't seem to grasp is that having a town PR role doesn't mean much. You can be born with excellent genetics but it could mean little to nothing if you take it for granted. If people don't exercise their brains while playing as any sort of role as town, then they will have failed the town and likely contributed to scum victory
-Consider why the person is fake claiming. There are particular folks who believe in fake claiming holding merit. Though I respect unconventional actions having their worth in FM, it typically isn't a bright idea to fake claim. If the player has a reputation for being a great town player, he might be fake claiming for a good reason. In this case, you better be sure you're townreading them and thus, do not counterclaim until later. Try to fish out the reasons for his fake claim