Counterclaim immediately?

[BNL]

Let's say some guy gets driven to L-1 and claims Cop... but you know he is lying as you are the Cop. Obviously counterclaiming will (almost) nearly ensure a scum lynch.

But the question is, should you counterclaim

immediately

? Seemingly on this site yes, but I don't see the advantage to it. If you delay counterclaiming by one day, you get one more investigation, forcing scum to kill an otherwise scummy player (or even better: finding another scum). Also people will find it suspicious why the claimed PR wasn't killed, and yet someone else was.

Only time I'd say CCing immediately is good is LyLo (obviously), or day before LyLo (people may not believe your claim).

[Plotinus]

if you're not on the wagon, lolhammer him. if you are already on the wagon, counterclaim.

make sure you've crumbed your results in some manner so that if you're nightkilled, you won't be in trouble. Ways of doing that are putting your innocents at the top of your reads lists or expressing some level of paranoia about everyone except for your innocents.

[Ether]

It depends on things like the size of the game and the utility of your role and whether you have any credibility. (If you're going to get run up in the next few days, then getting forced to counterclaim is gonna look pretty bad.) But for something like a cop in a 13-player game, I'd say more results are good and conventional wisdom is overrated.

Also, I hate the modding meta that there can't be two of any role, and the fact that it's so ubiquitous that changing it now would just randomly punish towns for no good reason. But that's for another time.

[PokerFace]

I agree with Plotinus

A game needs to be run that contains 2 sane cops, 2 insane cops, 2 naive cops, 2 paranoid cops, 2 new kind of sanity or some kind i am forgetting cop, 1 mafia role cop (is told if cop he targets is sane or whatever), 1 Mafia role blocker, 1 goon. On death, cop sanity is not revealed

[Zachrulez]

It depends on things like the size of the game and the utility of your role and whether you have any credibility. (If you're going to get run up in the next few days, then getting forced to counterclaim is gonna look pretty bad.) But for something like a cop in a 13-player game, I'd say more results are good and conventional wisdom is overrated.

Also, I hate the modding meta that there can't be two of any role, and the fact that it's so ubiquitous that changing it now would just randomly punish towns for no good reason. But that's for another time.

Breaking mod meta in anything but large games is probably difficult because two of a particular role can be incredibly powerful. (2 sane cops in a mini for example.)

[BROseidon]

Depends on context.

[Ether]

Back in the day, I played a mini normal with one sane cop and one insane cop.

It worked out pretty well. The game's name was Cops and Robbers, so when the first cop claimed we realized that counterclaiming was a bad idea.

[Cheetory6]

Three trackers. Two of them town. One of the scum. Let the games begin.

[BROseidon]

Everyone is trackers GO!

[Plotinus]

Everyone is a bodyguard

[BROseidon]

Why would you ever play that.

[Plotinus]

My players seemed to enjoy it actually, and most of them signed up for the second run, so it couldn't have been that bad.

[Plotinus]

I was a bodyguard in a game back in June, and I hated that game, I got into three dumb arguments with my friends during day 1 and it sucked and I was never gonna be the nightkill target and it was so nice to be able to win a trip to the dead thread just by guessing who would be nightkilled. It was my first time being nightkilled ever and my friends spent the rest of the game moping in the game thread and I spent the rest of the game moping in the dead thread but at least I didn't have to play it anymore.

If I were playing that setup, if I were having fun, I would no protect, but if it was one of those games where I just couldn't into it and I wasn't confident in my reads then I'd try to protect my biggest townread, or if I was feeling like someone would do better than me then I'd protect them.

[Yarrrrgami]

...

Also, I hate the modding meta that there can't be two of any role, and the fact that it's so ubiquitous that changing it now would just randomly punish towns for no good reason. But that's for another time.

Yar! That's why ye emblazon a big ol' message on yer port bow that reads "Thar can be multiple non-scurvy pirates with the same job on this vessel."

Sure, ye be pretty much confirmin' that thar be at least one duplicate matey, but that's just how the cookie be crumblin'.

If you're the sort of captain who doesn't swing that way, ye can just give your crew a couple of similar, but not clearly exclusive jobs, such as Jimmy the odd-night deck swabber and Jerry the 2-shot weak swabber.

[UpTooLate]

I actually recently made this mistake in a newbie game that just ended. A widely scumread player claimed cop after I had crumbed it, I CC'd, and we lynched him. He flipped VT (that's another issue in itself) but then I was the NK. I almost immediately regretted it, because he was more than likely going to be lynched anyway, and I shouldn't have put myself out there like that. Oh well, you live and you learn. =)

[Ether]

Kagami I know we have our differences but can we make swabbers an actual role?

[Yarrrrgami]

Yar! With a couple jugs o' rum, anything is possible!

[Yarrrrgami]

But for clarity, let's call him a Swabcop.

[Titus]

Let's say some guy gets driven to L-1 and claims Cop... but you know he is lying as you are the Cop. Obviously counterclaiming will (almost) nearly ensure a scum lynch.

But the question is, should you counterclaim

immediately

? Seemingly on this site yes, but I don't see the advantage to it. If you delay counterclaiming by one day, you get one more investigation, forcing scum to kill an otherwise scummy player (or even better: finding another scum). Also people will find it suspicious why the claimed PR wasn't killed, and yet someone else was.

Only time I'd say CCing immediately is good is LyLo (obviously), or day before LyLo (people may not believe your claim).

I would try to subtly counterclaim, by saying there's no way the claim is true and drop massive hints, doubly so if the game is normal.

If janitors are in the game, outright cc.

[Kagami]

I would try to subtly counterclaim, by saying there's no way the claim is true and drop massive hints, doubly so if the game is normal.

If janitors are in the game, outright cc.

The problem with this is that any hint you drop is going to be picked up by the scumteam with 99% certainty. It will be completely obvious to them that you're suddenly saying things related to what they know to be a fake-claim and for which they're expecting a counterclaim.

Meanwhile, town is in the dark, and scum has the initiative to exploit the difference in information. They can roleblock you for the rest of the game, casting doubt on your eventual CC. They can pretend to have performed some Night action revealing that the claimant is scum, pre-empting the CC. A one-shot janitor, which you wouldn't know about, would be disastrous as well.

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually recently made this mistake in a newbie game that just ended. A widely scumread player claimed cop after I had crumbed it, I CC'd, and we lynched him. He flipped VT (that's another issue in itself) but then I was the NK. I almost immediately regretted it, because he was more than likely going to be lynched anyway, and I shouldn't have put myself out there like that. Oh well, you live and you learn. =)

Sorry about that.

We knew he was town too

[UpTooLate]

Sorry about that.

We knew he was town too

Butthead.

[zMuffinMan]

Yar! That's why ye emblazon a big ol' message on yer port bow that reads "Thar can be multiple non-scurvy pirates with the same job on this vessel."

Sure, ye be pretty much confirmin' that thar be at least one duplicate matey, but that's just how the cookie be crumblin'.

it wouldn't confirm anything if you made a habit of writing a (mostly) all-encompassing message containing standard disclaimers that should apply in any game (which would include anything you don't want town thinking is the case because they're stupid, e.g. flavour related to roles, duplicate roles, etc)

then you (or anyone, if it became a standard for the site) can just refer back to it whenever you run a game (instead of, for example, only mentioning it when you include duplicate roles)

[pieguyn]

^I did that a while back by announcing the game was publicly singleball, but specifically clarified I was making no comment about any other (third-party) alignments. everyone assumed it meant I put an SK in the game. in reality I did it for exactly that reason, to make a habit of announcing singleball vs. multiball in all of my games without revealing anything else about the setup, and the game was pure town vs. mafia with no third parties... lolol

on the topic of the OP, it depends. I could probably think of some situations where it would make sense. usually I just prioritize lynching scum over anything else, though, so I would CC in the absence of another viable lynch I feel strongly would flip scum.

[Cheery Dog]

In my first newbie game I was advised to hold off on counter claiming until day 2 dawned.

I think that might have been partly because the IC was the other power role and he'd picked up on my crumb, and therefore wanted to see what the fake claim would produce.