Alternative voting rules

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Alternative voting rules

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:42 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

Hello everyone. This is me again. This time I am wondering what the effect would be of having different voting rules on the game, and what voting rule should be preferred. I like the majority rule that is used here a lot, but it is not the only voting rule in existence.

Currently we have the majority rule (50%+1 is required to lynch) with hammer (the lynch is resolved once there is a majority). Years ago, before I started playing here, I was used to playing Mafia with the plurality rule rather than the majority rule. The plurality rule is similar to the majority rule that only the player with most votes is lynched, but no strict majority is necessary. We also had no hammer. This means that with 10 players, with 3 players voting for X, 2 players voting for Y, 2 players voting for Z, 2 players voting for W, and 1 player not voting, a lynch could be achieved. These votings were also very manipulable (a consequence of the plurality rule) and they always ended with the deadline.

To resolve ties, we had a mayor voting on D1 rather than a lynch (this mayor role is not to be confused with the MafiaScum mayor role). The mayor would have the ability to break ties (a kingmaker of some sort). The mayor was often the target of nightkills, because the Mafia wanted to have a scum mayor instead. Sometimes the Mafia purposely kept a town mayor alive for WIFOM reasons, to deceive players into thinking the mayor is still alive because they must be scum. Of course, there is no mayor on this site, because the majority rule makes a mayor useless.

I mainly want to compare these two voting rules: majority vs. plurality. Should the majority rule be preferred over the plurality rule? On what basis? This is interesting to me from a game theoretical perspective. I would really like to hear your thoughts about this, because I have not seen any discussion about it so far.

(There are also other voting rules, such as the Borda rule. But these are generally a lot more complex: every player must rank
all
players to vote. I don't really know how the Borda rule would play out in practice.)
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:52 am

Post by Ether »

Plurality rules used to be much more common here, but it made things kind of stale once people made their minds up. Most days went to deadline when hammers weren't necessary.

Condorcets have been used a handful of times. The problem with condorcets is that, again, there's no motivation to compromise, plus no one has any clue what's going on or who's really on the chopping block.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:59 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

So a clear downside to the plurality rule is that it contributes to player apathy.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:14 am

Post by popsofctown »

I think that tiebreaker method might hurt day-play a bit. If two wagons are tied for plurality, 1 is scum and 1 is town, a scumbuddy isn't forced to pick one to vote to avoid nolynch, he can just hope the mayor guesses wrong and stay on whatever small wagon he's on without looking that bad for it. The tension of no lynches seems helpful to day play to me.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:00 am

Post by Davsto »

Firstly, from a pure fairness standpoint, a majority lynch is impossible to conduct by purely scum, as by the time they get to that large of a team, they've won anyway.

A plurality lynch can, in theory, be entirely conducted by scum.

Secondly, very rarely do people want to play all the way to deadline before a lynch. Plurality rules force that, which is irritating at best.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:14 am

Post by zoraster »

I did a couple of games with Lynch + 24 hours which kind of had the potential to be interesting late game, but was kind of a drag early game.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:56 pm

Post by Egg »

In post 3, popsofctown wrote:I think that tiebreaker method might hurt day-play a bit. If two wagons are tied for plurality, 1 is scum and 1 is town, a scumbuddy isn't forced to pick one to vote to avoid nolynch, he can just hope the mayor guesses wrong and stay on whatever small wagon he's on without looking that bad for it. The tension of no lynches seems helpful to day play to me.


Best tiebreaker I've ever seen is the so called "Sudden Death". The day continues until someone votes one of the tied wagons or someone on one unvotes. It's fun because it holds someone to the same standards as a hammer typically would and the first person to decide to do it can so if anyone feels strongly one way or the other and isn't already voting where they are, it happens instantly. Tends to be quick anyway. Of course this was off site, but it was fun and I'd like to see it used here once or twice.

Dav wrote: Secondly, very rarely do people want to play all the way to deadline before a lynch. Plurality rules force that, which is irritating at best.


There are a few solutions here:
1) End the day early if majority is reached just like a regular game
2) Allow players to vote to end the day
3) Give players the opportunity to "lock in" their vote meaning it can't be moved and end the day when a lynch is mathematically unavoidable.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:47 pm

Post by itlepip »

I'd agree to the first two, locking votes is terribad because you would have certain players lock votes early in the day to try to force a certain outcome just by force of will.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:39 am

Post by kirroha »

Plurality is problematic because it incentivises the person who knows they'll have the most votes to immediately jump on the second largest bandwagon in order to avoid being lynched, even if they think the 2nd person is also town.

It is also a lot easier for scum to manipulate the lynch.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Post by Dwlee99 »

My home site makes it so 50% + 1 is a hammer but if the day reaches deadline plurality lynches.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:07 pm

Post by Egg »

In post 8, kirroha wrote:Plurality is problematic because it incentivises the person who knows they'll have the most votes to immediately jump on the second largest bandwagon in order to avoid being lynched, even if they think the 2nd person is also town.


This kind of happens anyway though
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:54 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 9, Dwlee99 wrote:My home site makes it so 50% + 1 is a hammer but if the day reaches deadline plurality lynches.

I do this when I run a Nightless; it's simple and understandable, and doesn't have terrible effects on gameplay. (Other options that might work better in gameplay terms would involve giving the scum increasing numbers of secret extra votes over time, thus incentivising Town to pick a lynch before the deadline, but that's much more complex for not much gain.)
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:44 am

Post by Ircher »

That other option is a horrendous idea.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:48 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

I hate the plurality thing though because I think it gives town an advantage. One time I got lynched by 1/5 of people because of plurality.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:53 am

Post by Ircher »

Wouldnt it give scum the advantage? They need less people to lynch.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:54 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

In post 14, Ircher wrote:Wouldnt it give scum the advantage? They need less people to lynch.

No lynches never hit scum, it allows the town to get all of their lynches off without needing to convince all of town.
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