I always get lynched D1 because I suck

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:30 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 3, kirroha wrote:I know I'm not good at getting scumtells. But I've only played 4 games so far and I've gotten lynched early in all of them (or they ended early) and I had hardly any time to improve on it. So I'm always just confused all the time in games and tried to make sense of things by asking questions to people for the reasons behind some of their votes, but I get scumread for asking questions (because my question posts tend to be IIoA or something?).

The only reads I general get so far are that lurkers who don't contribute much are scummy, that's all. But it doesn't seem to work that way I guess. I'm just a bit bummed that I keep getting voted over lurkers who don't contribute much, and that these lurkers are who end up flipping scum in the end.


I'll give you some advice for your particular situation:

1) Scumtells are bullshit. Don't rely on them. Ask yourself why scum would do a certain thing, and if you can't come up with a good answer, look elsewhere.

2) Don't ask a ton of questions unless you're prepared to follow up on them. I mean, I do this sometimes too. But there are folks on the site who see it as "sniping," like... an easy way to look involved without getting your hands dirty. If you're going to ask questions, focus on one or two of your strongest scumreads and stick to them until they're either dead or looking more townie. Don't cast too wide a net.

3) "Lurking" isn't necessarily scummy. What you want to kill are the "not-really" lurkers. See, lurking is an easy way for scum to lie low, but plenty of town do it too. You're just as likely to lynch a town lurker as anything else. Plus, killing lurkers is seen as low-hanging fruit. It's easy to push wagon on the lurkers. They're not around to defend themselves. Look for the lurkers with an agenda. The ones who are conscientiously voting in certain ways or popping their heads in at opportune times. You get better at finding the "not-really" lurkaderps.

4) If you're getting voted over lurkers, it's because of 3. They may have flipped scum in the end, but it wasn't their behavior that was scummy. It was that you were seen as a low-content poster who went after the easy targets. *THAT* comes across as scummy.

My advice: Stop looking for scumtells. Don't ask questions unless you're prepared to follow up. Don't assume all lurkers are scum. Be conscious of how the town is perceiving you.

You could also try:

5) Pick out a town read or two. Don't overtly buddy them, but help them engage the town. Works even better if you've got long experience with them. (You can also form a defacto bloc with your town reads, aka the pirate mollie method. Though to be fair, mollie is charismatic and good at selecting her town blocs. This only comes with experience.)
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:32 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 24, BROseidon wrote:Yeah, I didn't try to get kuribo mislynched as scum when his hydra-partner fake claimed masons with another townie then proceeded to get that townie lynched several days later.

It's
really
not worth the effort.


I was reading that game the other day. I had forgotten that DGB and I basically trapped Cowbells into a corner as soon as they replaced in and then figured out Pidgeon based on his reactions. IIRC we actually (finally) figured out the setup over facebook chat the night we were killed, lol.
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:39 am

Post by BROseidon »

Yeah, you were dangerously close to figuring it out and were the only slot left who could really turn the game away from the game-ending SK lynch. AP wanted to shoot the obvious SK target!
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:39 am

Post by popsofctown »

If you were a baseball player, this thread would be like making a thread saying "I've played 4 baseball games but I've never hit a Ground Rule Double, omg why am I so awful at Baseball? Please give me advice on how I can wreck other aspects of my play so I can hit more Ground Rule Doubles."

Getting mislynched doesn't keep you from winning games or contributing. Even getting lynched as scum doesn't keep you from winning games or contributing. And it is the aspect of your play that is the hardest to control and improve, and the aspect of your play that can harm the rest of your play the most if you start adopting a disproportionate focus on it.

The easiest thing to improve on is figuring out who the scum are in the thread. That should be your number one focus.

If you want to move up from that, you can work on making convincing arguments that communicate to the other players why your scumreads are accurate.

I would only see merit in practicing not getting mislynched for the sake of games where I draw a PR. And even then I would only move onto that aspect of my play when I am 3 hundred and twenty years old and feel really good about the other aspects.

If you find day 1 scum every game and explain it clearly enough that everyone else can understand, it won't matter if you've got a slight inherent scummy body odor, your teammates will be too busy lynching scum first until the game ends (except when you're forced to mimic it or perform some fabulous bussing)
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:35 am

Post by KainTepes »

I also want to ask, WHY do people always vote me?? I am town and nobody believes me also,
I AM KAIN TEPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:36 pm

Post by Vampirate »

In post 29, KainTepes wrote:I also want to ask, WHY do people always vote me?? I am town and nobody believes me also,


Ok, now let's say someone besides you asked this.

"I also want to ask, WHY do people always vote me?? I am town and nobody believes me also"

What is your answer to your own question directed back at you? Why do people always vote me? I'm town yet no one believes me.
You are not more paranoid than me!!!!
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:39 pm

Post by Vampirate »

Better yet

Here is the player list and the first thing everyone says

1. I'm town
2. I'm town
3. I'm town
4. I'm town
5. I'm town
6. I'm town
7. I'm town
8. I'm town
9. I'm town


Where is the mafia in the group?

Basically saying you are town is useless considering everyone is going to say that, you basically need to show you are town by what you say.
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:53 pm

Post by KainTepes »

Then how do I SHOW PEOPLE I AM TOWN??
I AM KAIN TEPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:29 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

In post 22, itlepip wrote:ugh you and cerberus I have a mission to get mislynched one of these games.


OMG! I randomly decide to read this forum for once and I find you talking about me!!! :p I did get mislynched that one time man. Sad day. Almost made me quit playing cause town did it on accident. :(

Anyway, keep playing in games with me. One of these days I'll be town, and you'll be scum, and you can embark on an epic campaign to set me up as the lylo mislynch.

I imagine that would be extremely satisfying for you.

In post 32, KainTepes wrote:Then how do I SHOW PEOPLE I AM TOWN??


Try to figure out who the scum are. Attack things that don't make sense as town actions. A lot of what people are saying in response to OP apply to you as well. Early game in particular you don't have a lot to work on, so your focus needs to be on creating content. Forcing contributions from others by questioning them and discovering what they're doing, make them explain *why* they felt something deserved a vote, or why they moved their vote.

You need to be aware of what reasons people could have for taking actions as either alignment, and actively work to determine that whatever they're doing, it isn't because they're scum.

Of course, I'm terrible at scum hunting early game, basically everyone here can give you some better ideas on actually identifying scum, but I'm quite good at not getting lynched, and it has nothing to do with me being obviously town.

This is pretty rambling and unfocused, hmm. Let's take a step back.

How to not get lynched:

1) Be obvtown. This is accomplished, when playing with strangers, by actively working to solve the game, and generally doing things that would be unlikely for scum to do. Of course, what people view as unlikely for scum differs from person to person, so honestly, the best bet you have is just trying to find the scum. As town, it DOES NOT matter how everyone else views you or reacts to you, other than insofar as you don't want to alienate people so they IGNORE you. You need to be actively working to identify who town and scum are, stick by your reads unless circumstances change and thus your reads should change, and get the town to work together to actually lynch scum. If you're playing with people who actually know you, it can be a lot easier to do, but this requires a lot more time playing games(and a lot less time playing in newbie games, since, by definition, the people playing in those games are mostly new, and thus unlikely to know you).

2) Be an abrasive asshole/ crazy spammer who everyone is afraid to try to get lynched. Kuribo does this. He will tunnel you into the ground if you so much as look in his direction, and make you regret ever considering that he might not be town.

3) Find scum. This goes back to one, really. If you *do* find yourself in a position where everyone is gunning for you...find the people among them who are actually scum trying to force a mislynch. Remind everyone about the guy who's only prodged for the last week. Deflect, and have actual good reasons, well considered reasons, for why x is a way better lynch than you are. Remember, you're town, and lynching ANYONE but you is more likely to result in a scum flip than letting them lynch you. Don't give up.


And yeah. Above all else(and this is to you OP, whose name I don't remember but whose been playing on this site for quite some time on and off and keeps getting discouraged): DO NOT GIVE UP. Getting lynched D1 just gives you a chance to go sign up for and focus on another game, and learn from it. Every single game you play is an experience you can use to get better, and just because one doesn't go the way you want it to, doesn't mean you should just stop playing. Unless you just don't like mafia that much, of course.

In which case, what are you even doing here? Go do something you like. :P

DISCLAIMER: I am, at best, okay at mafia. Any advice I may give is, well, of questionable value.
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:30 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

Boom, Kirroha is the OP's name. One last thing.

You do not suck. Seriously. Stop telling yourself that. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

You are inexperienced. You can get better. You will get better.

All you need to do is give yourself the chance to.
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:45 pm

Post by kuribo »

In post 33, Cerberus v666 wrote:2) Be an abrasive asshole/ crazy spammer who everyone is afraid to try to get lynched. Kuribo does this. He will tunnel you into the ground if you so much as look in his direction, and make you regret ever considering that he might not be town.


WTF is this, you're not thinking of voting me are you because I CAN 100% ASSURE YOU HOW THAT STORY ENDS


SPOILER ALERT I DANCE ON YOUR GRAVE


oh wait this is just MD again, sorry, flashbacks, carry on
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:49 pm

Post by itlepip »

VOTE: Kuribo
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:55 pm

Post by kuribo »

In post 36, itlepip wrote:VOTE: Kuribo



Image
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:13 pm

Post by OceanWind »

In post 25, kuribo wrote:2) Don't ask a ton of questions unless you're prepared to follow up on them. I mean, I do this sometimes too. But there are folks on the site who see it as "sniping," like... an easy way to look involved without getting your hands dirty. If you're going to ask questions, focus on one or two of your strongest scumreads and stick to them until they're either dead or looking more townie. Don't cast too wide a net.


Asking a lot of questions can actually be pretty useful. I tend to ask lots of questions and only follow-up on the ones I find interesting or alignment-indicative. There'll always be people who interpret it as scummy but as town, it is better to scumhunt in the way you see fit rather than try to avoid "scumtells." This is advice that benefits people when they are playing scum, not town.



Whether or not a player gets lynched depends more on how active they are and how much they are contributing, and their personality, as opposed to avoiding "tells" like this. The best advice really is play however you feel is right and just impose your personality more strongly on the game. Most teenagers and kids often have trouble with that and come across as "weak players" because they haven't fully developed socially.

Another mistake many people make is to sheep the loudest voice in the room rather than build concensus. It's not that sheeping by itself is scummy although it can be, it is also that by not making an impact on the game, they open themselves up for easy attacks.

Often, the players that get mislynched aren't the ones who are getting scumread a lot, it's the ones that no one is townreading. Don't fly below the radar regardless of your alignment. For a while, you may be successful but it only takes one passing glance at you from one person who points out that you're flying below the radar to find yourself as a lead wagon. I get scumread quite a bit sometimes but never get lynched because I'm always the center of attention and the one driving the game forward.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:20 pm

Post by OceanWind »

Also, the "attack everyone who scumreads me strategy" is a bit dumb because town will attack town all the time and if that's the case, you're setting yourself up to a situation where the best outcome is you mislynch somebody else in your stead. That won't get you closer to winning.

One more thing - once it seems like you will be lynched, don't focus on just defending yourself. Re-read the game (I'm surprised how few people do this), re-analyze everything, refine your reads, explain them. Once people see you start doing solid analysis of the game, they'll rethink their position. You likely won't get out of a lynch simply by responding to the arguments against you because most people are just going to refute your arguments and so on and so forth. You can't "win" arguments. You need to convince people that their initial read was wrong. The best way to do that is to just post lots of analysis.
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:27 pm

Post by FakeGod »

I've gotten shot in a game because of kuribo once
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:56 pm

Post by KainTepes »

PEOPLE CALL ME SCUMMY WHEN I AM JUST AN AGGRESSIVE TOWN PLAYER
I AM KAIN TEPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:35 pm

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

Be super aggressive. It makes people afraid to vote you.
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:44 pm

Post by KainTepes »

AM I NOT AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH???
I AM KAIN TEPES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"I am afraid of SAYING HIS NAME!!!!" - Toto

"why be a better mafia player, when you can be a better KAIN TEPES???" - Vi
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:01 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 40, FakeGod wrote:I've gotten shot in a game because of kuribo once


better than getting lynched :D


And several times if you count getting shot while Serening
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:13 am

Post by T S O »

Make sure that you keep posting in caps and add exclamation marks. It's impossible to play aggressively without spamming those.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:32 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

In post 43, KainTepes wrote:AM I NOT AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH???
Typing in caps is not necessarily aggressive.

Aggressive is making threats, for example.
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:40 am

Post by kuribo »

In post 45, T S O wrote:Make sure that you keep posting in caps and add exclamation marks. It's impossible to play aggressively without spamming those.


i hardly ever use exclamation points. or any punctuation when i'm caps raging. just a habit from writing, I guess.

Elmore Leonard wrote:"You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose."


F Scott Fitzgerald wrote: "Cut out all those exclamation marks, an exclamation mark is like laughing at your own jokes."
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:23 am

Post by Vampirate »

In post 43, KainTepes wrote:AM I NOT AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH???


NO! YOU! ARE!
NOT
!


:lol:
You are not more paranoid than me!!!!
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:25 am

Post by itlepip »

yes because if there is one thing this site is missing, its people that take things way to seriously and get all ragey for no reason...
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