Style differences between Newbie and other games

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Style differences between Newbie and other games

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed May 04, 2016 1:02 am

Post by Mizzytastic »

Hi. I'm a newb! I'm currently in my first game, but I've read, or at least skimmed, a bunch of games while I was waiting so I'm basing this on general impressions.

Newbie games on this site seem to have 3 purposes on this site, to give people a nice welcoming introduction, to introduce people to how the game is played here and to weed out those who this isn't really for. But reading through newbie games compared to other ones I feel like the first two are kind of at odds with each other. I'd be interested to see whether people think this is the case, why it might be (or why I might have gotten this impression) and any advice for a newb wanting to make the jump to the rest of the site, given my anxieties?


For one thing, most games on this site seem to be hyper adversarial. Lots of personal attacks. Someone disagrees with you - idiot. They don't have to be scummy or even anti-town, they disagree, they're stupid - or even better, they disagree about your unexplained stance, they must be the scum, lynch lynch lynch. You don't need to state your case, you just need people to agree.

Another thing is post style/length/content. People just seem to say a lot more in newbie games, even after accounting for the "explaining stuff to newbies" parts that happen. More reasons given, looking at more of what is said - both from new players and from experienced ones. Even people who are happy to make a case make far less of one. There are a lot fewer walls - which is probably a good thing but not one I expected. I've looked at non-newbie games and felt like I'd just have nothing much to go on.

More quickhammers/lolhammers/policy lynches. I'd have thought this is the sort stuff that newbies would be really happy to do, but so far I've only seen it in non newbie games I've read. Like, wtf? Not really more to say there, just wtf?!
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I feel like the style of play encouraged in newbie games might just lead to a massive whiplash when you join other games. Right now I feel like if I joined one now with the way I naturally post (not just here, but when I talk on forums in general) I'm just gonna get ignored, insulted and lynched (whatever is on my role pm) and not necessarily in that order. Thoughts?
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed May 04, 2016 3:06 am

Post by Plotinus »

I think in newbie games, the experienced players spell their thoughts out a bit more because they're trying to demonstrate how to scumhunt, but outside of newbie games, less of that makes it into the game thread and more is happening in the player's heads. Opens tend to be about 1 step up from newbie games, and normals a step up from that and then micros, mini themes, and large themes, in that order. Reading games in various queues is a good idea if you want to know if you'll enjoy playing in that queue or not.

Also, outside of the newbie games, you generally are playing with people you've played with before, so you have a feeling for what they're like. You start to notice little things about people you play with a lot but you don't want to tell them what those things are because then they'll be able to adapt.

I think the weeding out kind of happens by itself: newbie games aren't supposed to be a trial by fire where those who can't take the heat are chased off the site (and ideally non newbie games wouldn't devolve into that either, but they do sometimes. If people go too far over the line they can be banned, though.) But there is a higher flake rate in newbie games probably because of things like the game taking more time than was expected or it looked interesting but isn't as interesting as they thought it would be. You often don't know until your first time playing something whether you're going to enjoy it or not. Some people enjoy it, some don't.

Newbies tend to be more cautious than experienced players, they're less likely to hammer by mistake. I've seen it happen in newbie games too, though.


If you like newbie games best, you can decide to play mostly in the newbie queue. Newbie games are real games, not practice games, and they're just as fun as other games. You can play two newbie games from the start and then you should try to sign up for a game outside the newbie queue with some people you know and like from your first two newbie games; it'll be easier with some familiar faces. They'll remember what you were like in your newbie game and be less likely to mislynch you for just being yourself and you'll remember what they were like and can use that to read them. And then after that you can play as many newbie games as you like as an SE. Eventually, as you get to know people better, you'll probably find yourself drifting out into other queues and you'll find yourself understanding things that you don't understand right now.

Experienced players who play with newbies often enough to learn how to read them (and newbies are harder to read because they're approaching the game differently and sometimes different looks scummy even when it's just thinking outside the box that let's newbies see things the experienced players have blinded themselves to) will sometimes try to prevent newbies from being mislynched when they wander into the deep end of the pool. I was in a micro recently with a bunch of newer players and I basically spent the entire time trying to keep them from mislynching each other and then we lynched scum on days 1 and 2 and then we won.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed May 04, 2016 5:07 am

Post by callforjudgement »

One thing to note is that the sort of impatient people who tend to quickhammer/lolhammer/screw around tend not to end up in Newbie games all that much, because they rarely have the patience to go through the SE queue (which is often pretty long), and Newbie moderators don't really like that sort of player to replace in. In other queues, you tend to end up in a game much faster because supply of players (rather than supply of newbies) is normally the limiting factor (occasionally, such as sometimes happens with Large Normals, the limiting factor is the supply of moderators, but this is much rarer).

As for why posts are longer in newbie games, it's because people tend to explain their reads in more detail because the other players can rarely guess. In most games you can just name tells – "player A is active lurking" – or even present a read without explanation on the basis that you think that many townies will understand where you're coming from. (The unexplained read technique can also be useful because scum who aren't really paying attention to the game may challenge the read in a way that makes it clear that they aren't reading the game themselves.)

In terms of policy lynches, they basically never go through anywhere (although it can be amazing when it does happen). They're frequently
suggested
outside the newbie queue because some players are known to have a very scumsided playstyle. In the newbie queue, the newbies don't have a reputation because they're new, the IC wouldn't have been allowed to IC if they were the sort of player who gets policy lynched, so a policy lynch could only really go through on the SEs; there's not a lot of opportunity for one there.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu May 05, 2016 8:12 am

Post by Mizzytastic »

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad I wasn't just imagining stuff but equally I have looked at some more games with what you have said in mind and I think I may have hit a particularly bad sample, as while the same things were still there the games did seem more civil than I had originally seen. Also, I'm starting to notice a lot of the shitthrowing seems to be built around personal disagreements or people who are somewhat intentionally acting in a way to provoke - so either hopefullly not involving me or at least predictable. Personalities clash I guess. Still a bit anxious about games outside the newbie queue, but I think that's probably to be expected from what I know of me. And hey, it's just a game after all.
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